Monday 3 May 1993

Election of Chair

Election of Vice-Chair

Appointment of subcommittee

Committee business


*Chair / Président: Beer, Charles (York North/-Nord L)

*Vice-Chair / Vice-Président: Eddy, Ron (Brant-Haldimand L)

*Carter, Jenny (Peterborough ND)

Cunningham, Dianne (London North/-Nord PC)

*Hope, Randy R. (Chatham-Kent ND)

McGuinty, Dalton (Ottawa South/-Sud L)

Martin, Tony (Sault Ste Marie ND)

*O'Connor, Larry (Durham-York ND)

*O'Neill, Yvonne (Ottawa-Rideau L)

*Owens, Stephen (Scarborough Centre ND)

*Rizzo, Tony (Oakwood ND)

*Wilson, Jim (Simcoe West/-Ouest PC)

*In attendance / présents

Substitutions present / Membres remplaçants présents:

Fletcher, Derek (Guelph ND) for Mr Martin

Clerk / Greffier: Arnott, Douglas

Staff / Personnel: Drummond, Alison, research officer, Legislative Research Service

The committee met at 1546 in room 151.


Clerk of the Committee (Mr Doug Arnott): Honourable members, it is my duty to call upon you to elect a Chair of the committee. Are there any nominations, please?

Mr Randy R. Hope (Chatham-Kent): I'd like to nominate Mr Beer's name.

Mrs Yvonne O'Neill (Ottawa-Rideau): I'd like to second that, if that's possible.

Clerk of the Committee: Thank you. Are there any further nominations, please? Are there further nominations to the position of Chair? There being no further nominations, I declare nominations closed and Mr Beer duly elected Chair of the committee.

Mr Hope: Boy, what an election.

Mr Derek Fletcher (Guelph): That wasn't as close as the last one.

The Chair (Mr Charles Beer): I'd like to thank all the members for my election as Chair of the committee. I will certainly make every effort to work with all committee members in looking at the various pieces of business that come before us.


The Chair: I believe our next duty, Mr Clerk, is then to elect a Vice-Chair. Are there any nominations for Vice-Chair? Ms O'Neill?

Mrs O'Neill: Before I do that, Mr Chair, I'd like to say that I think it's "re-election of Chair" and I think that should be stated in the minutes of the meeting because you have gained our confidence and are being re-elected.

Mr Hope: No, no. Let's not overdo it.

Mrs O'Neill: I'd like to place the name of Mr Ron Eddy for Vice-Chair of the social development committee.


The Chair: Seconded by Mr Hope. Are there any other nominations for Vice-Chair? Hearing none, Mr Ron Eddy is the Vice-Chair of the social development committee. Welcome both to the committee, Mr Eddy, and also to the position of Vice-Chair.


The Chair: The next item of business, then, is the appointment of the subcommittee on committee business. For that, as members know, I as the Chair of the committee will chair that and then we would have a representative from each party to sit on that committee. I believe Mr Eddy is prepared to move a motion. We would need the names of the members from each caucus who would be serving as members of that subcommittee.

Mr Hope: Mr Owens will be serving for the government as the subcommittee member.

The Chair: Okay. Mr Steve Owens will be serving for the government. I believe that Ms O'Neill will be serving for the Liberal caucus and Mr Wilson for the Progressive Conservatives. Mr Eddy, if you would be good enough to move that motion, we can then vote on it, if you would move it in its entirety, please.

Mr Ron Eddy (Brant-Haldimand): I move that a subcommittee on committee business be appointed to meet from time to time at the call of the Chair or at the request of any member thereof to consider and report to the committee on the business of the committee, that substitution be permitted on the subcommittee, that the presence of all members of the subcommittee is necessary to constitute a meeting and that the subcommittee be composed of the following members: Mr Charles Beer, Chair; Ms Yvonne O'Neill; Mr Jim Wilson; and Mr Steve Owens.

The Chair: All in favour? Opposed? Carried.


The Chair: We have received today our first item of business, which will be Bill 4. What I would suggest is that we arrange a meeting of the subcommittee to organize how we'll approach that bill. Perhaps if I could ask each member of the subcommittee to discuss with his colleagues what people would like to see in terms of hearings and precisely what we're going to do, we can have a meeting of the subcommittee, either later this week or at the beginning of next week.

Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe West): I'm sorry, Mr Chairman; with the chainsaw in the background --

The Chair: Bill 4 today was referred to our committee.

Mr Jim Wilson: What would the full title of Bill 4 be?

The Chair: That's the education omnibus bill. We'll need to work out what we're going to do.

Mr Jim Wilson: I'd like to get off the subcommittee, Mr Chairman.

The Chair: I'm sure there are some members of your caucus who'd like to get on. But if we could speak to the various critics in particular about what it is they would like to do on the committee, I'll arrange with the members of the subcommittee to get together, if not before the end of this week, at the beginning of next week, so we can plot out exactly what we're going to do. I think we need some direction in terms of witnesses and that kind of thing.

Mrs O'Neill: Do we know that this would be a summer hearing process, or would we be beginning immediately?

The Chair: I believe we would be beginning as soon as possible, but that would require, obviously, discussion.

Mrs O'Neill: So it could begin in June easily.

The Chair: Yes. I believe that the minister has indicated he would like to have the committee begin discussion of the bill as soon as possible, so I think the subcommittee needs to look at just what that means and what witnesses would be called and that kind of issue. We need to consult, as I say, with our critics and with the minister and then proceed, because if it is a matter of bringing in some witnesses, we need some time to get a hold of them. I think the minister or his representative and ministry staff may well be coming before the committee with further information about elements of the bill.

Mr Hope: With that, isn't there currently before this committee some work that still has to be done? I'm wondering what the status of that is. The government bill may be referred to this committee, but depending, I guess, on the subcommittee decision when it's going to be dealt with, there is currently --

The Chair: A government bill takes precedence. You're quite right that there are a couple of other things on the agenda. In fact, one question I had was that I had thought Bill 94 had been withdrawn and I wasn't quite sure why that was on the list. That was a question I had. I thought it had been withdrawn, but perhaps I could ask the clerk.

Clerk of the Committee: Many items of business referred to committees in the last session were carried over into this session. Bill 94 is one of those bills. The list of business referred to the committee that I sent to you in the House today was taken from today's order paper.

The Chair: Perhaps that's something the subcommittee can look at. I'll organize that as soon as I can give opportunity to members to discuss it with their own critics or minister. Okay?

Mrs O'Neill: Mr Chair, just as Mr Wilson's leaving, it is true that the meetings we've been attending in some parts of this building are like this, that we can hardly hear each other. I think it's going to be important in the hearing process that the clerk verify that we'll be able to hear the witnesses. I'm quite serious about that.

The Chair: I think that's an excellent point. We would not want to sit here for two and a half hours with that in the background. The subcommittee will note that as well.

Without further ado, then, the committee stands adjourned until the next meeting of the committee.

The committee adjourned at 1553.