Tuesday 28 January 1992

Election of Chair

Election of Vice-Chair



Chair / Président(e): Offer, Steven (Mississauga North/-Nord L)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Président(e): Miclash, Frank (Kenora L)

Bisson, Gilles (Cochrane South/-Sud ND)

Christopherson, David (Hamilton Centre ND)

Conway, Sean G. (Renfrew North/-Nord L)

Eves, Ernie L. (Parry Sound PC)

Harnick, Charles (Willowdale PC)

Hope, Randy R. (Chatham-Kent ND)

Mills, Gordon (Durham East/-Est ND)

Murdock, Sharon (Sudbury ND)

Owens, Stephen (Scarborough Centre ND)

Scott, Ian G. (St George-St David L)

Substitution(s) / Membre(s) rempliçant(s):

Brown, Michael A. (Algoma-Manitoulin L) for Mr Miclash

Fawcett, Joan M. (Northumberland L) for Mr Scott

Grandmaître, Bernard (Ottawa East/-Est L) for Mr Conway

Sutherland, Kimble (Oxford ND) for Mr Bisson

Ward, Brad (Brantford ND) for Ms S. Murdock

Clerk / Greffier: Arnott, Douglas

Staff / Personnel: McNaught, Andrew, Research Officer, Legislative Research Service

The committee met at 1332 in room 228.


Clerk of the Committee: Honourable members, it is my duty to call upon you to elect a Chair of the committee. Are there any nominations?

Mr Christopherson: I move Mr Offer.

Clerk of the Committee: Are there any further nominations? There being no further nominations, I declare Mr Offer elected Chair of the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly.


The Chair: Thank you very much. The next order of business, as indicated in your agenda, is the election of the Vice-Chair. Is there a motion from the floor?

Ms Poole: I nominate Mr Miclash.

The Chair: Mr Miclash has been nominated as Vice-Chair. Is there anyone else? Seeing none, Mr Miclash shall be elected Vice-Chair of the committee.


The third item of business on the agenda is the appointment of the subcommittee on committee business. I believe Mr Arnott has provided a motion for the committee members. Prior to asking for motions, I would just note that on the fourth line it says, "that substitution be permitted on the subcommittee upon written notice." I am wondering if it is acceptable to members of the committee that, in the event that there is the need for substitution on the subcommittee, the necessity for notice not be required.

Mr Christopherson: Just a question. I do not know if that is the usual routine. The only concern I have is ensuring that if we are in the process of in camera, confidential matters, there are not people breezing in and out declaring, "I'm a member of this," without any kind of formal substantiation, given the sensitivity, perhaps, of some information.

The Chair: I believe the normal practice--and correct me if I am mistaken--is that if there is the need for a substitute for the subcommittee, notice need not be given. It would be on the understanding, of course, that there is not going to be a revolving door in and out, but there are certain times when there are members who are on the subcommittee who cannot make a subcommittee meeting. I think we are all aware of the terms of reference and the responsibilities given to the subcommittee. It might be best and in fact most convenient if people could be part of a subcommittee without the necessity of any formal notice.

Mr Christopherson: With the caveat that if there seems to be any kind of difficulty with that, we could bring this back to the committee to reconsider. With that understanding, we can live with that proposal.

The Chair: I think that is fair.

We have to make a motion for members on the subcommittee. Though we have had some discussion around the motion itself, I will now ask for names for members from each caucus to stand on the subcommittee.

Mr Hope: I will put forward Dave Christopherson's.

Mr Grandmaître: Mr Conway.

Mrs Fawcett: Mr Harnick.

The Chair: Having decided those three names, I would ask for someone to read in the motion, with the alteration as discussed and the insertion of the names.

Mrs Fawcett: I move that a subcommittee on committee business be appointed to meet from time to time at the call of the Chair, or at the request of any member thereof, to consider and report to the committee on decisions relevant to the committee's terms of reference; that substitution be permitted on the subcommittee; that the presence of all members of the subcommittee is necessary to constitute a meeting, and that the subcommittee be composed of the following members: Mr Christopherson, Mr Conway, Mr Harnick and the Chair, Mr Offer.

The Chair: Motion carried? Carried. That completes the matters--yes, Mr Harnick?

Mr Harnick: Can you provide us with a list of the members of the committee at this time? I mean, is this the way the committee is going to be constituted? I know Mr Eves is going to be on the committee.

The Chair: May I make a suggestion? Can we have the clerk provide a copy of the list of members who are going to be members of this committee for this purpose?

Mr Harnick: Can I just advise you what my concern is? I have seen through House leaders' meetings who the proposed members are likely to be. It may well be that someone who has been proposed as a member to serve on this committee may be in a conflict of interest, in that someone who might be on the committee might ultimately be a witness before it, in light of certain information that has come to light very recently and has been published. If that is the case, I think maybe we should move to avoid that conflict now and discuss that.

Mr Christopherson: I am not aware that there is any type of difficulty like that with the makeup here today. This is an organizational meeting. It was an attempt to find people who are available, and we are meeting by agreement of the House leaders ahead of the actual time because we wanted to facilitate the business of the subcommittee. Could I suggest that perhaps if Mr Harnick could wait until we have submitted the permanent list, which will be forthcoming, then we could perhaps take a look and see if there are concerns such as those he has raised, or other concerns.

The Chair: Does that meet with your concern at this point, Mr Harnick?

Mr Harnick: I had hoped that we could have had the names of everybody who is going to be on this committee and that we could have dealt with it.

Mr Christopherson: As far as I know, there are still some questions of schedules with some of the members who are being considered on our side. That is the only thing holding it up that I am aware of, and that is why I say that should be coming very soon.

Mr Harnick: My understanding is that the final list of who the members were to be was submitted to the House leaders on January 8. I do not know why we are playing games here and why we are not disclosing who the members are going to be. Obviously we are going to have a problem, and let's deal with it now. I know that list was submitted.

The Chair: Mr Christopherson, do you wish to respond?

Mr Christopherson: Yes, I would. First of all, I am disappointed to hear the word "games" being used, because there are not. The permanent substitutions are to be coming. I was just advised that the document will be in the hands of the opposition parties tomorrow from our side. There is no attempt at any games whatsoever.

Mr Harnick: Can we disclose at this time who was on that list that was submitted January 8?.

Mr Christopherson: I do not have it with me.

Mr Harnick: Maybe you can ask the representative of your House leader, who I noticed was speaking with you.

Mr Christopherson: I do not think it is private information.

Mr Grandmaître: Would the clerk not have that list?

Mr Harnick: The clerk might have that.

Clerk of the Committee: Yes.

Mr Harnick: Can you disclose that to us?

Clerk of the Committee: The membership list of this committee was composed of lists submitted, as required by the House, by each party whip on January 8. The names were Gilles Bisson, David Christopherson, Sean Conway, Ernie Eves, Charles Harnick, Randy Hope, Frank Miclash, Gord Mills, Sharon Murdock, Steven Offer, Steve Owens and Ian Scott.

The Chair: Does that address your concern, Mr Harnick?

Mr Harnick: Yes, it does.

The Chair: If there is no further matter, that completes this organizational meeting. Before adjourning, however, I would ask if the subcommittee members might wish to hold back just a little bit. I think we all recognize this committee has been convened as a result of unanimous consent by the House leaders to allow the subcommittee to start dealing with some of the mechanics in this committee. If possible, I would like to devote a few moments afterwards to talking to the members of the subcommittee, with a view to deciding when our next meeting should be, so more of the mechanics and the structure can be determined. If that is agreeable, we will adjourn at this point in time.

The committee adjourned at 1344.