Legislative Assembly of Ontario

The committee met at 0903 in committee room 1.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Good morning, everyone. The Standing Committee on Regulations and Private Bills will now come to order. There are two private bills on the agenda for consideration today.

Crystal-Kirkland Mines, Limited Act, 2018

Consideration of the following bill:

Bill Pr1, An Act to revive Crystal-Kirkland Mines, Limited.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): First I’ll introduce the sponsor of Pr1. That’s Mr. John Vanthof, MPP. If you would like to take a seat, and if your applicant would like to join you. Mr. Vanthof, if you’d like to speak clearly and state your name, as well. Anybody who speaks, state your name so Hansard records it correctly.

Mr. John Vanthof: Good morning, Mr. Chair. I’m John Vanthof, MPP for Timiskaming–Cochrane.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): And if the applicants would like to introduce themselves.

Ms. Sonia Kaplan: Good morning. I’m Sonia Kaplan.

Ms. Cynthia Kaplan: Cynthia Kaplan.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Thank you.

Mr. Vanthof, do you have any comments to provide to the committee?

Mr. John Vanthof: I’m happy and honoured to be here this morning and to sponsor this bill on behalf of the Kaplan family. I’m very proud that it’s PR bill number 1.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Would the applicants like to have any comments for the committee to consider?

Ms. Sonia Kaplan: We’re here, actually, to request that a corporation, Crystal-Kirkland Mines, Ltd., be revived. We are endeavouring to correct a title problem with the property that was inadvertently left in the corporation at the time of its dissolution.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Okay. Are there any other interested parties in attendance today, and if so, would they like to come forward? Seeing none, are there are any comments from the government or from ministries on this bill?

Mr. Will Bouma: I have no comments.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Questions and comments from committee members regarding this bill? The floor is open, if anybody would like to ask questions or if you have any comments. Seeing none, I will ask the members if they are ready to vote on Pr1? Okay.

Shall section 1 of the bill carry? All those in favour, say “aye.” Carried.

Shall section 2 carry? All those in favour, raise your hand. Carried.

Shall section 3 of the bill carry? All those in favour? Carried.

Shall the preamble of the bill carry? All those in favour? Carried.

Shall the title of the bill carry? All those in favour? Carried.

Shall the bill carry? All those in favour? Carried.

Shall I report the bill to the House? All those in favour? Carried.

Ms. Sonia Kaplan: Thank you. I thank the committee.

2063434 Ontario Limited Act, 2018

Consideration of the following bill:

Bill Pr2, An Act to revive 2063434 Ontario Limited.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): The committee will now consider Bill Pr2, An Act to revive 2063434 Ontario Limited. I’d like the sponsor and the applicant to state your names for Hansard.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: Thank you, Chair. It’s a pleasure for me. I’m Mr. Randy Pettapiece. I’m the MPP for Perth–Wellington, and I’m here to sponsor this bill by the applicant, Kevin Gilbert. I believe Mr. McMeeken will be doing the speaking on it.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): If the applicant could state his name.

Mr. Kevin McMeeken: My name is Kevin McMeeken. Good morning, Mr. Chair, Mr. Clerk and honourable members. I am the lawyer who represents Mr. Gilbert and his corporation, Hailcourt Holdings Inc.

Mr. Gilbert had intended to amalgamate the numbered company in question with Hailcourt Holdings Inc. and carry on business under Hailcourt Holdings Inc., and mistakenly dissolved the corporation instead of having it amalgamated. That has resulted in a situation where the numbered corporation in question continues to hold real property in the city of Brantford. In order to have that property changed into the name of Hailcourt, this corporation needs to be revived and amalgamated with Hailcourt, then an application to change the name will be registered with the land registry office.

I’m open to any questions you might have regarding the matter.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Thank you. Are there any other interested parties in attendance who would like to speak to this bill? Seeing none, are there any comments from the government?

Mr. Will Bouma: I haven’t received anything from anyone; however, I would just like to point out that the address is incorrect. I trust that the description of the property, legally, is correct, but Brantford is spelled wrong and Lynden is spelled wrong in the bill.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): An eagle eye. Let’s take a look at that—

Mr. Will Bouma: Well, it happens to be in my riding.

If I could just ask, through you, Mr. Chair: There’s one address, 230 Lynden Road, but there’s more than one separate legal property at 230 Lynden Road. I was just wondering about clarification on that because I spoke to the owner of 230 Lynden Road. There’s a car dealership there and there’s also a car wash. I just want to make sure that we don’t create any problems for any of the owners at 230 Lynden Road.

0910

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): I guess if you can do some commentary about this, seek some—I don’t have that compendium with me.

Interjections.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): If I could ask the applicant, do you have any comments to respond to those—

Mr. Kevin McMeeken: I apologize for the clerical error in “Brantford.” I didn’t mean any disrespect to the member or–

Mr. Will Bouma: And Lynden Road.

Mr. Kevin McMeeken: —the citizens in his riding.

Sorry: Lyndon is spelled–

Mr. Will Bouma: Lynden is E-N.

Mr. Kevin McMeeken: Okay. I apologize. I believe that on title it’s actually got an O-N, but that can be corrected when we do the application name change.

The legal description is correct. That’s taken from the parcel register, and with respect to properties within Ontario, the proper way in order to—civic addresses are just so that the general public knows where to go. It’s the legal description that actually determines where the property is located, and in this particular case, if you look at “PIN,” which stands for property identifier number, that’s the way the land registry office indexes where all of the properties in Ontario are located. So the first five numbers are what’s called a block. All of Ontario has been divided into blocks, and then each property within a block has been given an identifier, which is the four digits that follow after the hyphen. There would be no mistaking that this is the actual property that continues to be held in the name of the numbered company.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Any further comments or questions from committee members?

Are the members ready to vote on Pr2? Okay.

Shall section 1 carry? All those in favour, say “aye.” All those opposed? Carried.

Shall section 2 of the bill carry? All those in favour? Those opposed? Carried.

Shall section 3 of the bill carry? All those in favour? Those opposed? Carried.

Shall the preamble of the bill carry? All those in favour? Those opposed? Carried.

Shall the title of the bill carry? All those in favour? Those opposed? Carried.

Shall the bill carry? All those in favour? Those opposed? Carried.

Shall I report the bill to the House? Those in favour? Those opposed? Carried.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Kevin McMeeken: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee business

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): The Clerk has distributed a motion by Mr. Hatfield. Would you like to move that?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: If I could, Chair, yes. I’d like to move—do I have to read the motion?

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Yes. Does everybody have a copy of the motion? I believe the Clerk has handed it out.

Go ahead, Mr. Hatfield.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Thank you, Chair. I move:

(1) That the Standing Committee on Regulations and Private Bills meet on Wednesday, November 21, 2018, to hold public hearings on Bill 6, An Act to establish the Poet Laureate of Ontario in memory of Gord Downie.

(2) That the committee begin its consideration of Bill 6 as the first item of business at its November 21 meeting.

(3) That the Clerk of the Committee post information regarding public hearings on the Ontario parliamentary channel, on the Legislative Assembly’s website and with CNW newswire.

(4) That the deadline for requests to appear be November 16, 2018, at 5 p.m.

(5) That interested presenters be scheduled on a first-come, first-served basis.

(6) That presenters be accorded up to five minutes to make their presentation, followed by up to 10 minutes for questions from committee members.

(7) That the deadline for receipt of written submissions on the bill be 10:15 a.m. on Wednesday, November 21, 2018.

(8) That the deadline for filing amendments to the bill with the Clerk of the Committee be 12:15 p.m. on November 23, 2018.

(9) That the research officer prepare a jurisdictional comparison of existing poet laureate regimes in Canada.

(10) That, time permitting, the committee may begin clause-by-clause consideration of Bill 6 on Wednesday, November 21, 2018.

(11) That the committee meet for clause-by-clause consideration of Bill 6 on Wednesday, November 28, 2018, at 9 a.m.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Thank you.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Thank you, sir.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Any discussion, questions or comments? Maybe before we go there: We do have some research material that was requested previously that is available. The Clerk has that available, if the committee would like to have it distributed. It’s the poet laureate positions in other Canadian jurisdictions. Would you like to have that distributed?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: I would, sir. I think it might be beneficial.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Any further discussion or comment on Mr. Hatfield’s motion? Mr. Barrett.

Mr. Toby Barrett: Just a quick question: I don’t think I was in the House that day. Did the private member’s bill receive support from all the parties?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Unanimous support, yes.

Mr. Toby Barrett: Unanimous?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: In fact, the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport spoke in favour of it as well.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Mr. West.

Mr. Jamie West: At our previous meeting, there was a bunch of information that we felt was missing, as a committee. Does this address what we thought was missing? I don’t want to go to our next meeting and find out we’ve overlooked something and have to come back and do this again. Is everyone satisfied?

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): That’s what we’ll find out when we ask for—if it passes or if it’s voted on.

Mr. Jamie West: Oh, I see.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Mr. Bouma.

Mr. Will Bouma: If I can speak to that: This is the first I’ve seen of this, so I can’t comment on that. I would like to wait until I can make a good comment on this, having just seen it this morning, to make sure that everything is adequate. So I would not like to see this get passed yet today.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Further debate?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Obviously, I believe there is enough information in front of us to take it to the next step. If there’s going to be a vote, I would request a recorded vote on it, Chair.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Ms. Hunter.

Ms. Mitzie Hunter: Chair, at our last meeting, we talked about the subcommittee meeting. Has that occurred?

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): No.

Further comment or discussion?

We’ll call a vote on Mr. Hatfield’s motion, and you asked for a recorded vote.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: I did, sir.

Ayes

Hatfield, Hunter, West.

Nays

Barrett, Bouma, Harris, Pang, Rasheed, Sandhu.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): The motion is defeated.

Any further business?

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Can I just ask a question at this point, Chair?

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Yes.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: What is the process of the committee? This isn’t going forward today. Mr. Bouma wants time to study what was presented today. Is it up to Mr. Bouma, then, to bring it back to this committee, or at the next meeting of the committee, does business that has been tabled, if you will, for time for members to read what has been placed in front of them—does it come back automatically?

0920

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): There are a couple of things that can happen. Should the subcommittee meet, it can be considered again at subcommittee. In addition, the bill is referred to this committee, so any member of the committee may bring a motion back to the committee at any time for this bill to be studied and to determine how it will be dispensed with at any time.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: The only reason I ask that—I don’t know if I’m telling stories out of school, but I did approach one of the government members on the committee and asked if the subcommittee was going to meet. I was told there was a problem having quorum at subcommittee, so the bills would be considered by the entire committee as opposed to a subcommittee. That’s why I presented it today.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): The subcommittee is authorized to meet at the call of the Chair or at the request of any member of the subcommittee.

Mr. Percy Hatfield: Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Ms. Hunter.

Ms. Mitzie Hunter: Mr. Chair, when will the subcommittee meet to look at the motion that was presented to us at our previous meeting? My understanding is that it had neglected to include things such as public hearings, but largely we were looking to advance that motion. My understanding was that the subcommittee was going to meet to discuss that.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): As I said, any member of the subcommittee can request a meeting of the subcommittee, as well as the Chair. Then it’s up to the members of the subcommittee to make themselves available and schedule a time for the subcommittee to meet.

Ms. Mitzie Hunter: So really, you could call a subcommittee right now.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): If a member chose to, yes.

Ms. Mitzie Hunter: Okay. Thanks, Chair.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Any further comment? We’ll call this—oh. Mr. Barrett.

Mr. Toby Barrett: This is a separate agenda item. However, it’s somewhat related to Mr. Hatfield’s PMB. On October 16, I wrote a letter to the committee, and I think it has been circulated. It’s titled, “Request for public hearings for ALUS bill.” That refers to a private member’s bill that went through second reading fairly recently. I forwarded it to the Clerk of the Committee, and I think it went to the subcommittee. My understanding is that it didn’t get circulated to the full committee, so I’d appreciate it being circulated to the full committee. Some of you may be familiar with this.

Very simply, not in the detail of what Mr. Hatfield has put forward—and I defer to Mr. Hatfield; in my feeling, his PMB was referred to this committee before mine, so there are no dates or recommendations for when clause-by-clause would occur; there’s just a thumbnail sketch. If anyone wishes more information about this particular private member’s bill—setting aside agricultural land for wildlife—I have a very large package which was distributed to all MPPs, oh, a month or so ago.

On page 2, because I’m asking for public hearings, I received something like 25 letters of support from individuals but primarily from Ontario-wide organizations, ranging from real estate to insurance to hunting and fishing to nature groups and conservation groups. I do know, in keeping in touch with these organizations, that a number of these individuals would really welcome the opportunity to come before a committee to explain further the concepts behind the setting aside of, primarily, farmland to better enable us to capture phosphorus that’s going into the lakes and capture carbon dioxide.

I don’t know whether this is just an information item. I don’t mean to go on and on about this, Chair, but it was dated October 16. I think that was just before our last meeting.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Thanks for the comment, Mr. Barrett.

Was this distributed to all committee members?

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Eric Rennie): Yes.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): It was. Okay. Well, that would be most appropriately, again, raised at a subcommittee meeting. As I’ve stated a couple of times, the subcommittee can meet at any time at the call of a member of the subcommittee making a request and/or the Chair.

Seeing no further comment—-

Mr. Jamie West: Chair?

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Mr. West.

Mr. Jamie West: I don’t know if we’re looking for someone to call a subcommittee meeting, but I’d like to call one because I’d like to get some work done, and waiting for someone to call it in the future, I think, just delays the process. I’m fine if you want to call it to discuss both of these, but I just—and if I could ask for as well—I don’t know if it’s from the Clerk or legislative research—a template on what we’re looking for so that we can be as successful as possible moving forward.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Okay. Just for clarification, I would say it’s always best to put a date and time when you’d like the committee to meet, or some parameters to it, instead of just leaving it open-ended.

Mr. Jamie West: One week from today.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Okay. And the second part of that was a request to the Clerk for some clarification, a template of what is typically discussed at subcommittee for the disposition of bills?

Mr. Jamie West: Yes. Concerns were brought up at the last committee meeting about what information was missing. A number of us are new as MPPs and so whatever we can have as a best practice to help us be more successful would be great, so that we don’t end up doing this again.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Would you be able to provide that? I’m sure you would be. I think, if I’m not too mistaken, that I’ve already seen a document of what often is discussed at subcommittee. Would it be appropriate to send it to all members of the committee?

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Eric Rennie): Yes.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Okay. I think that would just provide some better information and knowledge for everybody on how this process works.

So the first part of that, Mr. West calls for a subcommittee meeting—

Mr. Jamie West: Basically, one week from today, same time.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): A week from today?

Mr. Jamie West: That should give time for everyone to review everything.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Sure, okay. Is that a votable motion? No. Okay, so the subcommittee will meet same time, same place, next Wednesday.

Interjection.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): Okay. The Clerk will schedule and try to organize a subcommittee meeting for 9 a.m. next Wednesday.

Mr. Jamie West: Thank you, Chair.

The Chair (Mr. Randy Hillier): I think we can adjourn today’s committee meeting. Thank you very much, everyone.

The committee adjourned at 0929.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

Chair / Président

Mr. Randy Hillier (Lanark–Frontenac–Kingston PC)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Président

Mr. Kaleed Rasheed (Mississauga East–Cooksville / Mississauga-Est–Cooksville PC)

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand–Norfolk PC)

Mr. Will Bouma (Brantford–Brant PC)

Mr. Mike Harris (Kitchener–Conestoga PC)

Mr. Randy Hillier (Lanark–Frontenac–Kingston PC)

Ms. Mitzie Hunter (Scarborough–Guildwood L)

Ms. Laura Mae Lindo (Kitchener Centre / Kitchener-Centre ND)

Mr. Paul Miller (Hamilton East–Stoney Creek / Hamilton-Est–Stoney Creek ND)

Mr. Billy Pang (Markham–Unionville PC)

Mr. Kaleed Rasheed (Mississauga East–Cooksville / Mississauga-Est–Cooksville PC)

Mr. Amarjot Sandhu (Brampton West / Brampton-Ouest PC)

Mr. Jamie West (Sudbury ND)

Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Mr. Percy Hatfield (Windsor–Tecumseh ND)

Clerk / Greffier

Mr. Eric Rennie

Staff / Personnel

Ms. Jennifer Gold, legislative counsel