Assemblée législative de l'Ontario

The committee met at 0900 in committee room 1 and by video conference.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Good morning. The Standing Committee on Regulations and Private Bills will now come to order.

We have the following members in the room: MPP Billy Pang and MPP John Fraser. The following members are participating remotely: MPP Will Bouma, MPP John Fraser, MPP Vincent Ke, MPP Paul Miller, MPP Jeremy Roberts, MPP Dave Smith, MPP Daisy Wai, MPP Jamie West. Did I miss anyone? I don’t think—MPP Jim McDonell? Yes. We are also joined by staff from legislative counsel, Hansard, and broadcast and recording.

Please speak slowly and clearly, and wait until I recognize you before starting to speak. Since it could take a little time for your audio and video to come up after I recognize you, please take a brief pause before beginning. As always, all comments should go through the Chair, please.

Are there any questions, before we begin, from the committee members? Seeing none, there are three bills on the agenda today, which we will consider.

Wemax Real Estate Inc. Act, 2021

Consideration of the following bill:

Bill Pr47, An Act to revive Wemax Real Estate Inc.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): We will now resume public hearings on Bill Pr47, An Act to revive Wemax Real Estate Inc. I don’t think we need an introduction, because last time you did the introduction of the bill. I will ask the applicant, Thanakumar Subramaniam, to please introduce yourself.

Mr. Thanakumar Subramaniam: Yes, I am Thanakumar Subramaniam, and I am a director of the former Wemax Real Estate Inc.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Thank you. Are there any further questions or comments from the committee members? MPP Will Bouma.

Mr. Will Bouma: Thank you, Chair. Through you to the applicant: Mr. Subramaniam, I read your explanatory note, and it unfortunately seems to lead to more questions than to any answers that we had the last time that you appeared before committee.

We don’t see what the thoughts of the rest of the directors of the company are. Are you doing this with their consent? I see no documentation that that is what’s going on. There’s no clarity as to exactly what the company was doing, which is a real estate company operating as some sort of lender. The details of what is owed to the corporation aren’t there. So, I have a lot of questions that yet remain unanswered.

My thoughts when reviewing this material last evening were perhaps—because, again, if we vote down your bill, then it will be impossible for you, probably. I don’t see a path forward for you to be able to revive this company. While I would like to see you successful and be able to deal with these things, your answers to the questions that we asked and, indeed, the questions that the Clerks have given you in the form are still unsatisfactory to me.

My thoughts are—I’ll let you speak for yourself, but my thoughts are that, perhaps, we should wait until you’re prepared and perhaps come forward with some sort of representation legally to have those questions answered properly so that we can move forward with this. Those are my comments. If the applicant could respond, I’d appreciate that, Chair.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Any comments or questions from members to the applicant? MPP John Fraser, please go ahead.

Mr. John Fraser: I think it should be clear to the applicant that we have certain questions, because this is the second time through. If this is something that’s going to be considered by the committee, I think what’s specifically required and needed be there—because there may be questions that even counsel won’t anticipate. I just want to put that on the record.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Any other comments? MPP Paul Miller.

Mr. Paul Miller: I concur with my colleagues. There are a lot of questions and areas that we really aren’t getting strong answers in. I would suggest also to the applicant that he might want to get some legal representation to guide him through this process, because as has been pointed out, we already suggested he do that initially and get some help. This is the second time he’s come before us with some grey areas; let’s put it that way. I would prefer that, next time he comes—this committee is busy at the best of times, and that would be the third time if he comes before us again. So, I think he should have someone assist him, for sure.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Any further debate? Does the committee agree to postpone this? Does anyone want to put the motion to postpone this bill? MPP Will Bouma, please.

Mr. Will Bouma: If it’s appropriate, Chair, I would move that we postpone this bill until such time as the applicant requests to return. I’ll leave it open-ended like that on purpose, for him to decide how he wants to come back.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): The bill was postponed by MPP Will Bouma, seconded by John Fraser. Is there any other debate? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? It’s carried, so we postponed Bill Pr47.

Thank you, Mr. Subramaniam, for being here.

Mr. Thanakumar Subramaniam: Thank you.

Darvey Holdings Limited Act, 2021

Consideration of the following bill:

Bill Pr48, An Act to revive Darvey Holdings Limited.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Now we are moving to Bill Pr48, An Act to revive Darvey Holdings Limited. MPP John Fraser, would you like to introduce the bill? Please go ahead.

Mr. John Fraser: Yes, I’ll just put forward Bill Pr48, An Act to revive Darvey Holdings Limited here in Ontario. I’ll leave any comments up to the applicant’s counsel.

Mr. Randall Johns: My name is Randall Johns. I’m counsel for Darvey Holdings. This is an application to revive the corporation because it was inadvertently dissolved before it should have been, as a result of holding property that should have been transferred to its parent company before the dissolution. In fact, the accountants should have known, when they did the dissolution, that one of the questions to be asked was if the corporation held property, which it did. There is now a sale pending, and it was discovered that Darvey had been dissolved. We need to revive the corporation in order to allow the corporation to actually sell the property and then be wrapped up for the second, and hopefully the last, time.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Any comments or questions from the committee members? MPP Will Bouma.

Mr. Will Bouma: Chair, through you to Mr. Johns, if I could: Mr. Johns, it’s your intent, then, to revive the company, dispose of the property and then close the company back down again?

Mr. Randall Johns: That is correct.

Mr. Will Bouma: Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): MPP Paul Miller, please go ahead.

Mr. Paul Miller: To the solicitor: Many times on this committee, we have these types of things come forward where companies are dissolved before they should be. I just have to ask you, is there any communication between accountants and lawyers when they dissolve companies? If not, I think it should be mandated that they’re in contact so that it doesn’t put people through unnecessary, long committees and things. Would you agree with that?

Mr. Randall Johns: I would agree.

In this instance, the accountants actually did the dissolution. It’s interesting because, of course, from the viewpoint of the accountants, the treatment of the action to dissolve the company follows them making bookkeeping entries. The bookkeeping entries are, “This property gets transferred from the subsidiary to the parent,” and they forget that there’s actually a title registration system that needs to be addressed.

0910

In this particular context, believe me, the accountant has learned his lesson, because, really, the accountant shouldn’t be dissolving corporations. What should have happened, and what we had originally planned, was that there would be an amalgamation. If the parent and the subsidiary had amalgamated, at any time following the amalgamation, the lawyers could go on to the registry system and record the fact that the amalgamation took place and the two corporations are still alive, although they’re in one form.

With the dissolution, the corporation dies. The registry system shows that corporation still being the owner of the property, but because it’s dead, it’s not able to do anything with the title.

So that’s a long answer to a short question. The short answer is yes, there should be communication and there wasn’t.

Mr. Paul Miller: Thank you. I just want to say in conclusion that I’m suggesting to the committee that maybe we should, through the government sources, make the Land Titles Act available to accountants. They should follow a format. If they have any questions, then it would include talking to a solicitor about it. It might be a good suggestion in the future, because I don’t know how many times I’ve gone through this where there has been some mistake from accounting and there was no communication between the solicitor and accounting. This has got to stop. I think it’s certainly a waste of time and resources, and I would like to see some changes.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Are there any further comments? Seeing none, are the members ready to vote on Bill Pr48, An Act to revive Darvey Holdings Limited? Yes—I could see the faces.

Shall section 1 carry? Any comments? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? It’s carried. Section 1 is carried.

We will be moving into section 2. Is there any debate? Seeing none, all those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Section 2 is carried.

We are moving into section 3. Any debate? None. All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Seeing none, section 3 is carried.

Shall the preamble be carried? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Seeing none, the preamble is carried.

Shall the title be carried? Any debate? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Seeing none, the title is carried.

Shall the bill be carried? Any debate? Seeing none, all those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? The bill is carried.

Shall I report the bill to the House? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Seeing none, it’s carried. Thank you.

Just to let you know, for the next bill, Bill Pr46, An Act to revive Shuang Ying Company Ltd., the applicant hasn’t shown up yet and we can’t hold a meeting today.

MPP Dave Smith, please go ahead.

Mr. Dave Smith: Thanks, Chair. Just for clarification for Mr. Johns, do you mind letting him know that the bill has passed and he’s all good?

Mr. Randall Johns: I kind of figured that out.

Laughter.

Mr. Dave Smith: Not a problem. I just wanted to make sure, since sometimes we have people who are watching and they’re not sure about the procedure, and then they’re kind of left wondering what to do next.

Mr. Randall Johns: I very much appreciate that, because I’m not at all familiar with this procedure, so thank you for your consideration.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Thank you.

MPP John Fraser, would you like to say—

Mr. John Fraser: No, thank you.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Thank you to the applicant.

Committee business

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Is there any further business? MPP Billy Pang.

Mr. Billy Pang: Mr. Chair, I move that the committee enter closed session for the purposes of organizing committee business and that broadcasting staff be permitted to remain in the closed session meeting for the purposes of operating the electronic meeting technology.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): MPP Paul Miller?

Mr. Paul Miller: I just want to voice my opposition to moving in camera again. This is not necessary, and I want a recorded vote on this motion, please. I’m sure my colleague will have a comment too.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): MPP Jamie West?

Mr. Jamie West: I support my colleague MPP Miller’s comments on this. We continually go into closed sessions. I believe in a transparent government. I don’t know why we go into those closed sessions. I can’t disclose what we talk about in there, but I don’t feel like anything we discuss in there couldn’t be shared with everybody else.

We have an agenda for this meeting, for example. I damaged a tree printing it out. It’s very clear we have three bills we’re going to debate. There’s nothing about going into closed session and no conversation about it. I would like to be able to prepare as an MPP, moving forward, and I’d also like the opportunity to reach out to stakeholders on the things that we might discuss. I believe that we should be more transparent in our committee with the work we do, because we do good, important work here.

As well, I would like to echo the comment for a recorded vote, because I know we asked for it in the past and it wasn’t picked up properly.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Thank you, MPP Jamie West, for the request for a recorded vote. Any further debate before we do the recorded vote? Seeing none, we’re ready to vote.

Ayes

Bouma, Ke, Pang, Roberts, Dave Smith, Wai.

Nays

Fraser, Paul Miller, West.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): The motion is carried. We’ll go in camera now.

The committee continued in closed session at 0919 and resumed at 1300.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Good afternoon, everyone. I call the Standing Committee on Regulations and Private Bills to order. We have the following member in the room: MPP Billy Pang. We have the following members participating remotely: MPP Will Bouma—MPP John Fraser was here—MPP Vincent Ke, MPP Paul Miller, MPP Jeremy Roberts, MPP Dave Smith, MPP Daisy Wai, MPP Jamie West, MPP Vijay Thanigasalam, MPP Doly Begum, and also MPP Jim McDonell.

Staff from Hansard, broadcast and recording, and legislative counsel join us remotely today.

To make sure that everyone can understand what is going on, it is important that all participants speak slowly and clearly. Please wait until I recognize you before starting to speak. Since it could take a little time for your audio and video to come up after I recognize you, please take a brief pause before beginning. As always, all comments should go through the Chair, please.

Are there any questions before we begin? I saw MPP John Fraser joining virtually. MPP John Fraser? Go ahead, sir.

Mr. John Fraser: Yes, it’s John Fraser. I’m here at Queen’s Park. Chair, I’ll have to leave the meeting a bit early, just so you’re aware.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Thank you.

There are four private members’ public bills on the agenda today for clause-by-clause consideration.

Tamil Genocide Education Week Act, 2021 Loi de 2021 sur la Semaine de sensibilisation au génocide des Tamouls

Consideration of the following bill:

Bill 104, An Act to proclaim Tamil Genocide Education Week / Projet de loi 104, Loi proclamant la Semaine de sensibilisation au génocide des Tamouls.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): First, we start with Bill 104, An Act to proclaim Tamil Genocide Education Week. Are there any comments or questions on any section of the bill? I see none.

There are no amendments to sections 1 to 3 of the bill. I propose to bundle them. Does the committee agree? Agreed. Is there any debate on section 1, section 2 and section 3? No. So, ready to vote? Thank you. You should know what you’re voting for. Shall sections 1, 2 and 3 carry? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Sections 1, 2 and 3 are carried.

Shall the preamble carry? Any debate? MPP John Fraser.

Mr. John Fraser: No, I’m just early voting.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Okay. Wait. Don’t be in a hurry. It is an important bill.

Ready to vote? No debate? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? The preamble is carried.

Moving to the title of the bill: Any debate? No. All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed, please raise your hand. The title of the bill is carried.

Shall Bill 104 carry? Any debate? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Bill 104 carried.

Shall I report the bill to the House? Any debate? No. All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Carried.

Thank you for all the support.

Scottish Heritage Day Act, 2021 Loi de 2021 sur le Jour du patrimoine écossais

Consideration of the following bill:

Bill 208, An Act to proclaim Scottish Heritage Day / Projet de loi 208, Loi proclamant le Jour du patrimoine écossais.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): We are moving on to Bill 208, An Act to proclaim Scottish Heritage Day. Are there any other comments or questions to any section of the bill? MPP Dave Smith.

Mr. Dave Smith: I just want to say that this is a great bill. I really appreciate the support for the Scottish Heritage Day. I think that MPP McDonell has put forward an exceptional bill, and I say that on behalf of Clan Macpherson.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Further debate? MPP Paul Miller, please go ahead.

Mr. Paul Miller: I just want to say that this bill is long overdue, and kudos from the MacFarlane clan.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Further debate? I see MPP Jim McDonell. Please go ahead.

Mr. Jim McDonell: I want to thank everybody for their support. I just want to highlight the heritage of the Scottish settlers who came here and actually fought in the War of 1812 and, in many ways, made Canada what it is today. Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Any further debate? Seeing none, there are no amendments to sections 1 to 3 of the bill. I propose we bundle them. Does the committee agree? Thank you. Sections 1 to 3: Is there any debate? No. Ready to vote? All those in favour of sections 1 to 3? Anyone opposed? Sections 1 to 3 are carried.

Shall the preamble carry? Any debate? No. All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? The preamble is carried.

Shall the title of the bill carry? Any debate? No. All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? The title of the bill carries.

Shall Bill 208 carry? Any debate? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Bill 208 is carried.

Shall I report the bill to the House? Any debate? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Seeing none, it’s carried.

Filipino Heritage Month Act, 2021 Loi de 2021 sur le Mois du patrimoine philippin

Consideration of the following bill:

Bill 217, An Act to proclaim the month of June as Filipino Heritage Month / Projet de loi 217, Loi proclamant le mois de juin Mois du patrimoine philippin.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Now we are moving on to Bill 217, An Act to proclaim the month of June as Filipino Heritage Month. Are there any comments or questions on any section of the bill? MPP Doly Begum, please go ahead.

Ms. Doly Begum: I just wanted to say thank you to all members in all parties and thank the government and everyone who has supported it, as well as all the community members who have pushed this forward. The fourth time is the charm. I’m really excited to see this happen, so thank you very much. I’m looking forward to this passing, finally.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Thank you.

There are no amendments to sections 1 to 3 of the bill. Again, I propose we bundle them. Does the committee agree? Thank you. Shall section 1, section 2 and section 3 carry? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Sections 1, 2 and 3 are carried.

Shall the preamble carry? Any debate? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? The preamble is carried.

Shall the title of the bill carry? Any debate? I see none. All those in favour, raise your hand. Anyone opposed? The title of the bill is carried.

Shall Bill 217 carry? Any debate? All those in favour, raise your hand, please. Anyone opposed? Bill 217 is carried.

Shall I report the bill to the House? Any debate? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? I see none. It’s carried.

Thank you for all your support.

Persian Heritage Month Act, 2021 Loi de 2021 sur le Mois du patrimoine perse

Consideration of the following bill:

Bill 271, An Act to proclaim the month of March as Persian Heritage Month / Projet de loi 271, Loi proclamant le mois de mars Mois du patrimoine perse.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): We are moving to the last one, Bill 217, An Act to proclaim the month of March as Persian Heritage Month. Are there any comments or questions to any section of the bill? MPP Paul Miller, please go ahead.

Mr. Paul Miller: Just a correction: It’s not Bill 217; it’s Bill 271.

The Chair (Mr. Logan Kanapathi): Yes, sorry; Bill 271, An Act to proclaim the month of March as Persian Heritage Month. Am I making myself clear here? Thank you.

Are there any comments or questions to sections of the bill? Seeing none, there are no amendments to sections 1 to 3 of the bill. I propose we bundle them. Does the committee agree? Thank you. Shall sections 1 to 3 carry? Any debate? Ready to vote? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Sections 1 to 3 are carried.

Shall the preamble carry? Any debate? All those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? The preamble is carried.

Shall the title of the bill carry? Any debate? All those in favour, raise your hand, please. Anyone opposed? Seeing none, the title of the bill is carried.

Shall Bill 271 carry? Any debate? Seeing none, all those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Seeing none, Bill 271 is carried.

Shall I report the bill to the House? Any debate? Any comments? Seeing none, all those in favour, please raise your hand. Anyone opposed? Seeing none, it’s carried.

Thank you to everyone. That concludes our business for today. The committee is now adjourned. Thank you for being here.

The committee adjourned at 1313.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

Chair / Président

Mr. Logan Kanapathi (Markham–Thornhill PC)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Président

Mr. John Fraser (Ottawa South / Ottawa-Sud L)

Mr. Will Bouma (Brantford–Brant PC)

Mr. John Fraser (Ottawa South / Ottawa-Sud L)

Mr. Logan Kanapathi (Markham–Thornhill PC)

Mr. Vincent Ke (Don Valley North / Don Valley-Nord PC)

Ms. Laura Mae Lindo (Kitchener Centre / Kitchener-Centre ND)

Mr. Paul Miller (Hamilton East–Stoney Creek / Hamilton-Est–Stoney Creek ND)

Mr. Billy Pang (Markham–Unionville PC)

Mr. Jeremy Roberts (Ottawa West–Nepean / Ottawa-Ouest–Nepean PC)

Mr. Dave Smith (Peterborough–Kawartha PC)

Mrs. Daisy Wai (Richmond Hill PC)

Mr. Jamie West (Sudbury ND)

Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Ms. Doly Begum (Scarborough Southwest / Scarborough-Sud-Ouest ND)

Mr. Vijay Thanigasalam (Scarborough–Rouge Park PC)

Also taking part / Autres participants et participantes

Mr. Jim McDonell (Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry PC)

Clerk / Greffier

Mr. Isaiah Thorning

Staff / Personnel

Ms. Jennifer Gold, legislative counsel