STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES
COMITÉ PERMANENT DES ORGANISMES GOUVERNEMENTAUX
Wednesday 16 June 2004 Mercredi 16 juin 2004
INTENDED
APPOINTMENTS
JAMES ATTWOOD
The committee met at 0935 in room 151.
SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT
The Chair (Mrs Elizabeth Witmer): I would like to call this meeting to order. Our first order of business is the report of the subcommittee on committee business dated Thursday, June 10, 2004.
Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): I would move adoption.
The Chair: Is there any discussion? If not, all in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.
COMMITTEE BUSINESS
The Chair: I'd now like to deal with the extension of deadlines. Pursuant to standing order 106(e)(11), unanimous consent is required by the committee to extend the 30-day deadline for consideration of the following intended appointees: Gerald Stephenson, intended appointee to the Ontario Pesticides Advisory Committee; Helena Guenther, intended appointee to the Elgin Community Care Access Centre board of directors; and David L. Knight, intended appointee to the Ontario Securities Commission. Do we have unanimous consent to extend the deadline until August 31, 2004? All right.
So as we discussed last week, the committee will not be sitting in July, but we would hope to take a look at the numbers we have and come to some agreement about an August date.
INTENDED APPOINTMENTS
JAMES ATTWOOD
Review of intended appointment, selected by official opposition party: James Attwood, intended appointee as member, Midland Police Services Board.
The Chair: We'll now move to the appointments review and our first interview, which is with James Attwood, the intended appointee as member, town of Midland Police Services Board. I would ask Mr Attwood to come forward. Good morning.
Mr James Attwood: Good morning.
The Chair: As you may be aware, Mr Attwood, you do have an opportunity, if you choose, to make an initial statement and, subsequent to that, there are going to be questions from members of the committee.
At our last appointment review, we started questioning with the Liberal Party. Today we will start with the Progressive Conservative Party. Each party will have 10 minutes. We will go in rotation and, as is the practice of this committee, if you take time for a statement, Mr Attwood, that time will be deducted from the time allotted to the government party. So you may proceed. Welcome.
Mr Attwood: I'd like to begin by thanking the members of the committee for allowing me to meet with you today.
I reside in Midland with my wife, Louise, and our youngest daughter Megan, who is 13. I have two adult children from my first marriage, to whom I had the honour of being a single father for seven years. I have been a resident of Midland since I arrived there with my parents in 1963. In the ensuing 41 years, the Attwood family has grown and expanded, just as the town has. We are teachers, conservationists, business people and, in my case, a health care professional.
My nursing career began in June 1972 and was supposed to end with my retirement almost three decades later in November 2001. My first 17 years were spent at the Penetanguishene Mental Health Centre, Oak Ridge division, which is the only maximum security hospital in the province. By the time I transferred to other duties in 1989, I had had the privilege, along with other nursing staff, of implementing unified nursing into an environment that for years had been almost strictly custodial.
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The next 12 years were just as rewarding, as I came in on the ground floor, so to speak, of outpatient psychiatry. We set up community-based programs, the focus of which was to keep people out of hospital. This was later expanded to include individuals who had been found not criminally responsible for a crime due to mental illness.
Once these patients had been treated for a period of time and were deemed by the review board to be suitable to return to the community, my work began. My job was twofold: to ensure public safety through frequent monitoring and to provide support to the individual and his family while he readjusted to expanded freedom in his home community. To accomplish this, daily travel was required throughout central Ontario. The patient's case was reviewed monthly by the clinical team and annually by the review board, which could add or remove restrictions on these individuals.
Given the type of patient, there were occasional setbacks that required the assistance of the police in returning someone to hospital. Though these circumstances were unfortunate, it was always a pleasure to watch the professionalism of these men and women when handling a disturbed client.
At the present time, I am employed part-time with emergency crisis at Royal Victoria Hospital in Barrie, which by the very nature of the work brings me in frequent contact with officers bringing people to hospital under the Mental Health Act. I continue to work in my chosen profession as a result of the current nursing shortage and my own inability to walk away from a job I love.
I have recently been re-elected to the council at the College of Nurses of Ontario, where I work closely with the public members appointed by this body to ensure that the quality of nursing care in Ontario is second to none. At present, I am a discipline panel chairman within that organization.
I am also a former councillor of the town of Midland, having served three terms from 1994 until 2003. While I have many pleasant memories of the various committees I was part of, none was as rewarding as the time spent as council's appointee to the Midland Police Services Board from January 1999 until December 2001.
An avid outdoors person, I am the treasurer and bulletin editor of the Georgian Bay Hunters and Anglers. I have been a member of the executive of this club for over 25 years. We are a conservation club with an 80-year history in the Midland area and are several years older than our affiliate, the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters. We, as members, with the assistance of the Ministry of Natural Resources, are directly responsible for a 20-year walleye restocking program that has resulted in the return of this sports fish to the waters of Severn Sound. We are also involved in Pitch-In, the Wye Marsh projects and various other fundraising ventures to support our work. We have funded and supplied volunteers for the development of a youth organization that teaches interested young people about the great outdoors.
Midland, as our mayor likes to remind anyone who will listen, is a great place to live, work and play. It is a town that has grown under good leadership in the decade since I first came to town. Our police force does an excellent job of keeping it that way.
I hope from this presentation the committee realizes that through my career choices, both political and professional, I take great pride in looking after and being a part of both the community of Midland and the lives of those residents of Ontario with whom I've come in contact. I would bring the same enthusiasm to my duties as a board member, if appointed.
The Chair: Thank you very much. We'll now start with the Progressive Conservative Party.
Mr John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): Thank you very much for coming this morning, Mr Attwood. We certainly appreciate that.
Looking at your resumé and your record, I certainly have no qualms about your appointment. I presume that some of the prerequisite questions we ask as members of this committee -- while I don't think that it's a negative for myself personally, because I believe people who are involved politically clearly indicate that they have a great interest in their community, regardless of what side of the fence they're involved in. I think it indicates an interest in the community. But I do need to ask if you were approached by any member of a political party about this appointment and/or if you approached any members of a political party in seeking this appointment.
Mr Attwood: I can answer that in a roundabout way, sir. I applied for the council appointee position when I knew a vacancy was coming due. I wasn't successful there, so I approach Mr Paul Sloan, who was the Liberal candidate in our riding, and asked him how I go about doing it. He supplied me with the information. I got the application papers and I filed them myself.
Mr Yakabuski: I'm glad you did because, personally, I think you'll make a good appointee. I'm looking at your resumé and your service on town council, your choice of careers and your personal background. I think you will make a good appointment. I'm not quite sure why I was asked to question you this morning, but I certainly have no problem with your appointment.
The Chair: The NDP?
Ms Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): I have no questions for the applicant. I think he's got an excellent resumé and excellent experience, having been on the board. I look forward to his bringing some insights to the police services board in Midland.
The Chair: The government?
Ms Monique M. Smith (Nipissing): Mr Attwood, I just wanted take the opportunity to thank you for coming. As parliamentary assistant for health and long-term care, I wanted to thank you for not walking away from what you love. I appreciate your continuing work on the crisis intervention team and all the good work you are doing in mental health. It's so important. I just wanted to say thank you for that. Keep up the good work.
The Chair: Well, that was quite painless. We do appreciate that you did take the time to come. I would have to add my comments. You certainly have an impressive resumé and we really appreciate your willingness to serve your community in this way. Thank you very much for being here.
CATHERINE ANNE NOVICK
Review of intended appointment, selected by third party: Catherine Anne Novick, intended appointee as member, North York Community Care Access Centre board of directors.
The Chair: That allows us then to take a look at our second interview. That is with Catherine Anne Novick, the intended appointee as member of the North York Community Care Access Centre board of directors.
You may come forward. As you may be aware, Ms Novick, you have the opportunity, should you choose to do so, to make an initial statement. Then there will be questions from the committee. Each party will have 10 minutes and we will go in rotation. Any time that you take in your statement will be deducted from the government party. We welcome you this morning.
Ms Catherine Anne Novick: Good morning, Madam Chair and distinguished committee members. I appreciate the opportunity to be here today, and I'm pleased to be able to discuss my nomination for appointment to the board of the North York Community Care Access Centre and to answer any questions you may have. My comments will be brief.
In May 2003, I responded to a newspaper advertisement seeking members for the board of the North York Community Care Access Centre. A background in finance was one of the skills identified in that advertisement. As I have lived in North York for most of my life, I was looking for a way that I could volunteer to help in the community. I am a chartered accountant with over 25 years of experience in financial services, particularly in the life and health insurance industry. As well, I have some personal experience in understanding the needs of people, particularly seniors, for care in the home.
With my background experience, I thought I could assist the North York Community Care Access Centre. I interviewed for a position on the board and last summer I was advised that I would be nominated, subject to government confirmation. Since August 2003, I have been actively involved informally in the activities of the community care access centre. I have attended meetings and I have also helped to establish an audit and risk committee of the board for that care centre.
I have enjoyed the experience over the past year since the initial interview process for this appointment began and have learned a lot. I believe I have made a contribution to the goals of the access centre during that time.
I think you have a copy of my resumé and my background in financial services and other activities. I did receive a number of possible questions that the committee might have that were provided to me as part of a briefing package prior to this meeting. I would be pleased to provide any comments on any or all of these questions, or any other questions this committee may have.
The Chair: Thank you very much. We will begin with the NDP.
Ms Horwath: I'm just looking through your resumé and hearing your comments. Welcome, by the way, to the interview today. Ms Novick, can you tell me what experience you have in the community in dealing with people who are vulnerable or people who are perhaps in need of the services provided by a community care access centre?
Ms Novick: Probably the one closest to home is a family situation. My father had a stroke when he was 60 and was able to live at home for the next 13 years, before he died a few years ago. During that time, I came into a great amount of contact with the health care community. I learned how important it was for both family and the individual to be self-sufficient. In fact, he was able to maintain an independent lifestyle for over 13 years. So actively living that for 13 years is probably the biggest cause for what I came to understand in a very personal way.
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Since then, I've also worked with many other seniors, more one on one, I would say, than as a community representative. It's through that personal experience that, personally, I feel that there's a great opportunity for maintaining people in their home environment and providing them the support and dignity, rather than institutionalizing the individual. So it's more about, I think, a personal championing for the cause that I would --
Ms Horwath: Your résumé doesn't indicate any particular volunteer work that you've done with other organizations or agencies in your community. Do you have any particular organizations, agencies or groups that you've worked with in the community as a volunteer?
Ms Novick: The one that was probably a little longer ago was something called the Museum for Textiles. It was an arts-based organization that I had helped for several years. I'm not sure if that's included on the résumé or not. That was several years ago.
Since then, I guess I've been very actively involved in corporate life. You get to a point in a corporate role when it's time to give back to the community. So I was seeking something that I could contribute to the community. The advertisement was really what triggered that, together with my personal experience.
Other things that I have done are more professional, in terms of working with the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, the Ontario Institute of Chartered Accountants. I've sat on many committees, principally technically based and auditing.
This is new for me. I guess, as well, it's been a year now that I've actively been involved with this committee, as opposed to having no involvement. It has been, I guess, a very full year. It's hard to describe, sitting here today, having been actively involved with this organization for the last year. Through that time, I've come to learn -- I've met the people. I can understand some of the challenges of this kind of corporation, even this appointment process, which has taken over a year. We're sitting now with an executive director who retired a year ago, and we're trying to live in an interim fashion while the next executive director is appointed. So we've been working through some challenges, even as I sit here today, in this organization.
I've been through the budget process. I understand what it takes to make choices in this organization, whom to give care to, whom not to give care. If funding is fixed, then you do have to create a wait-list and create a choice. So I've been working actively for the last year and, I think, providing some help and assistance to this organization.
Ms Horwath: Can I just ask, finally, the question that I have with regard to the budget, particularly, of the organization? You're indicating that because the budgets are so tight, you need to make choices about whom to provide care to or not. Could you tell me whether you think the budgets for the CCAC are adequate to provide the necessary service to vulnerable people in your community?
Ms Novick: I think the community of North York is actually a growing community, and the budget is very much a model based on existing costs plus inflation. If you've got a growing community, you can't continue to service in the same way if, in fact, some of the increases have been less than inflation. I think it's been a good move on the part of the government in the last budget to increase funding for community care. I'm quite interested to see how that funding will be disbursed. I think a demographic approach would bear some looking at.
I think, for this community, clearly the funding is less than adequate to maintain the kind of services it has, because it's growing in terms of age. We have the largest population of seniors in North York. The percentage is higher, I think, than any other community care region, as far as I understand the demographics and how these access centres have been grouped. There are some real challenges for North York. I can't speak to the whole system. I suspect there are similar challenges elsewhere.
I think the other funding that was important last year was the SARS. That was a huge issue. A lot of extra service had to be provided. In fact, North York did gain some extra funding because of SARS. That really got them through.
Ms Horwath: Thank you. Those are my questions.
The Chair: The Liberal Party, any questions?
Mr Parsons: No questions. Thank you for applying.
The Chair: Mr Yakabuski, did you have any questions?
Mr Yakabuski: I have no questions other than to also thank you for coming in today. It's clear that you have a strong interest in it, that you support what's being done in community care access centres and recognize the vital role they play.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Ms Novick. We wish you well, and we appreciate your taking the time to come here today.
Ms Novick: Thank you for the opportunity.
The Chair: Is Mr Philip Olsson here? No. We're running early. I wonder if we could adjourn and reconvene at 10:30, because I think what's going to happen is -- yes, Ms Smith?
Ms Smith: When I saw that we were 15 minutes early after the first one, I asked whether or not we could call. They advised me that every expected guest is asked to come half an hour before their time, so I don't know that we need to adjourn until 10:30.
The Chair: It's just that if we run through him as quickly as we've run through the first two, which have taken us about 15 minutes to do --
Ms Smith: We're all so amenable this morning.
Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): We're doing so well.
The Chair: We're doing so well. That's the only reason. It just means that we probably are going to have to wait for somebody else if we start any earlier.
Mr Parsons: Is there anyone else here?
The Chair: I don't think so. We have Mr Kaiser and Mr Mullins, so we have someone scheduled for 11 and 11:30. The earliest the 11:30 one would be expected to be here would be 11 o'clock. That's why I'm suggesting that if we continue to move as quickly as we have, we'll be moving quickly.
Mr Parsons: This would infer we're perhaps calling people we don't need to.
The Chair: Let's do 10:30, and then at least it gives you a chance to do something.
Mr Yakabuski: I have a school coming at 12 o'clock.
The Chair: We'll be finished long before that. OK, we'll come back at 10:30.
The committee recessed from 0955 to 1035.
PHILIP OLSSON
Review of intended appointment, selected by official opposition party: Philip Olsson, intended appointee as member and vice-chair, Liquor Control Board of Ontario.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr Olsson, for being here. This is the intended appointee as member and vice-chair of the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, Mr Philip Olsson. Mr Olsson, as you probably know, you have an opportunity to make an initial statement. If you choose to do so, that time will be deducted from the time allotted to the government party, and then there will be questions from each one of the parties. At this point in time, I would invite you to make a statement, if you have one.
Mr Philip Olsson: Thank you for this opportunity to appear. I do have a brief statement. The committee will have seen my CV, and I would be pleased to amplify any aspect of my background.
In this brief statement, I would like to cover three topics: my qualifications as they specifically apply to this appointment, how my proposed appointment came about and disclosure of my political activities.
To briefly review my qualifications, I have spent over 27 years in the financial industry, as a commercial banker, an investment banker, a merchant banker, a venture capitalist and a private client investment manager. I am now a partner in a firm which manages about $235 million for individual clients.
Throughout my career investing has been my passion. My outlook is that of an investor, as a shareholder or potential shareholder. I evaluate managements on their ability to generate returns on the capital they employ and in many cases have worked with them to improve those returns.
My business experience has taught me the importance of careful, informed oversight of enterprises which presume to employ the capital of shareholders, whether those shareholders are individuals, institutions or governments. This oversight, which is referred to these days as corporate governance, is the responsibility of an organization's board members. I bring considerable experience in this area. Over the past 20 years, I have served as a director of 10 significant for-profit enterprises. I have served as chair of boards, audit committees and compensation committees. In my career as an investment banker, latterly as vice-chairman of RBC Dominion Securities, I was responsible for many relationships with chairs, CEOs and boards of directors. I was also responsible from time to time for advising governments, both provincial and national, in those governments' roles as shareholders of significant commercial enterprises. That's the dollars and cents side of my story.
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The other aspect of my experience I would like to discuss is a lifelong commitment to community service. I have served as a board member in a number of non-profit organizations, as detailed in my CV. I have raised money for essentially all of those organizations -- that seems to be my calling in life -- and in most cases I have taken a board position to ensure that the money raised is prudently spent.
In summary, I believe I am fully prepared to contribute fully to the work of the LCBO as a board member. I have already undertaken and completed considerable background research from public sources to ensure that, if appointed, I would be in the best position to discharge this important responsibility.
While I believe that the first obligation of any board member is to oversee the prudent use of resources, it is not the only obligation. I believe that all enterprises, whether commercial or non-profit, have an obligation to the larger public good and to ensure the highest ethical standards. This is particularly true, of course, in the case of the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, which has a mandate that goes beyond the purely commercial.
In reading Hansard, I note that prospective employees are often asked how they came to be proposed. In my case, I applied specifically for this position. In January of this year, a representative of Management Board suggested that I file my qualifications with the Public Appointments Secretariat, as qualified candidates were needed to fill many unfilled positions. In considering this suggestion, I reviewed the list of government agencies and concluded that the LCBO represented a confluence of qualifications and personal interest. I have spoken of my qualifications. The personal interest is a lifelong interest in wine -- not only the drinking of it but the commercial and cultural aspects of wine. I could go into greater detail, but I will merely present as evidence of my serious interest in this area the fact that my wife and I only recently returned from a wine tour of Burgundy and Champagne during which we visited some 12 producers, large and small. So I saw the LCBO as a place which would sustain my intellectual curiosity while utilizing my qualifications, and accordingly I specifically registered my interest in this agency.
I also note from Hansard that political affiliations have been of interest to members of the committee. To quote one member who isn't present today, at least at the moment, "We're always looking for the person who's some sort of political hack," although I was encouraged to read the subsequent qualification that "it's patronage that is intermixed with gross incompetence that's repugnant." Hopefully the committee now has enough information to assess my competence.
I would now like to take a moment to fully disclose my political activities. I have been a member of the provincial and federal Liberal Parties for many years and have contributed to and raised money for both organizations and for riding associations, as I have for many other non-profit organizations. This is consistent with the values instilled by my family. These included the positive obligation to actively involve oneself in community and civic service, including active involvement in the political process through the party of one's choice.
So I found it difficult to say no when in 1997 the new leader of the Ontario Liberal Party, now the Premier, asked me to assume responsibility for fundraising for the party. I undertook this task with the systematic approach I employ in all business and non-profit endeavours. I gathered the facts, assessed the party's strengths and weaknesses in fundraising and recruited a core group to collaborate in developing a strategy. I then undertook a program to persuade the party executive, and ultimately the party as a whole, to endorse necessary organizational changes and investment to create a modern, effective fundraising organization. At each step of the way, I took great care to ensure that the highest ethical standards were observed and that conflicts of interest were avoided.
Although I would not represent myself as non-partisan in provincial or federal politics, it may be of interest that I was a member of the fundraising committee for the John Tory mayoralty campaign. I was not asked; I phoned up and volunteered. I was well aware of Mr Tory's PC affiliations, but I felt he was the best candidate and wished to actively support him.
I am proud of my involvement in the political process. I feel it's an obligation of every citizen and I feel that this aspect of my experience in fact enhances my qualifications for this position. However, I recognize the possibility of the appearance of conflict of interest should my appointment to the LCBO be approved and, accordingly, I have resigned as chair of the Ontario Liberal Fund, effective today, and I've tabled a copy of the letter with the Public Appointments Secretariat.
This concludes my statement, Madam Chair.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr Olsson, for the statement. I would ask the Liberal Party if they have any questions.
Mr Parsons: Very impressive. We have no questions.
The Chair: I can understand that.
Interjection.
The Chair: No, I can understand the "impressive" part.
Mr Yakabuski: We all appreciate that clarification, I'm sure. Thank you for joining us today. I was not surprised, either. Clearly, you've indicated your long-term association with the Liberal Party. Notwithstanding the comments of another member of the committee about what that person found repugnant -- if it was mixed with gross incompetence -- we can certainly write that one off, because there's no question that we don't question your competence here. That's not the issue here at all.
But I do have some concerns with regard to the political appointment as vice-chair, because we recently had the chair of Ontario Place replaced. That was an appointment scheduled to last until 2006, and the chair was replaced clearly for political reasons and for the new government to put their stamp on the facility. I guess one of the concerns I have is whether we are going to be seeing a repeat now, with you being appointed as vice-chair. You would be sort of the government's candidate-in-waiting, so to speak, to be chair, should they make a political decision and replace Mr Brandt who, by all measures, has been doing a very good job with the LCBO.
So that's a concern I have. Have you had a discussion with the political master, so to speak, in that regard?
Mr Olsson: I initially indicated my interest, when I sent in my application, in being chair of the LCBO. I would regretfully report that I had not at that time read the legislation, which specifies that the chair be a full-time employee, which is not something I would contemplate at this moment. Other than that, there has been no discussion.
I don't believe my appointment as vice-chair is a chair-in-waiting position. I feel that I can be very effective as a board member, and I would second your observation that, since Mr Brandt was appointed in 1990, the board has made great progress, at least in consumer satisfaction.
Mr Yakabuski: So we'd confirm that at this time, you have no interest in being chair of the LCBO?
Mr Olsson: Well, I haven't been asked so I haven't seriously considered it. But it's not my understanding.
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Mr Yakabuski: OK. I just want to read something here -- a quote from Minister Sorbara -- and I'd like to ask you what you believe that means for the LCBO:
"We are going to undertake a thorough review of major provincial assets, to evaluate the appropriate role of each asset and to ensure effective and efficient management.
"That review will include the Liquor Control Board of Ontario ... the world's largest distributor of beverage alcohol. Our purpose will be to determine if Ontarians are receiving the maximum benefit from this very significant crown agency.
"But let me be clear. We will not sell the LCBO, nor will we sell TVOntario to pay for the ongoing operation of government. We're not looking to sell anything.
"It is possible that our review may identify assets that are not providing enough ongoing value to Ontarians, but would, if sold, generate substantial revenues that could be used to increase efficiency and promote economic growth.
"In that case, we would explore a potential sale on the basis that any revenues generated would be used for the change fund."
Could you comment as to how you interpret Mr Sorbara's quote with regard to the LCBO?
Mr Olsson: I understand that the government's position -- I'm very clear on the fact that it's not proposed to be privatized, and that's not in the cards.
As I mentioned earlier, I think the LCBO is to be admired for its progress in consumer satisfaction and service over the last 13 years. I think some reasonable questions could be asked about its financial performance, and have been asked by people and the public record. I haven't discussed it with the minister, but I would assume that it's the financial performance of the LCBO that he intends to review.
Mr Yakabuski: So the door is not closed, though? His quote certainly doesn't close the door. As a matter of fact, it's pretty ambiguous in many ways.
Mr Olsson: I'm only reporting to you my understanding. Privatization is a sale, and sales are done by shareholders; they're not done by management or boards. I'm only here today in my capacity as a potential nominee to the board. I have no view as to what the government's intentions may be other than that, as clearly stated by Mr Sorbara, it will not be privatized.
Mr Yakabuski: One other question: I represent a rural riding. We have in my riding a situation, as would anybody else who is in a rural riding, where we have what they call agency stores. Some people believe that agency stores represent privatization, and they oppose these types of stores. What role do you see these stores playing in the future, and do you see the LCBO proceeding with the expansion of agency store operations? I've heard conflicting comments as to where they might be going under this new government.
Mr Olsson: To be honest, I've read the LCBO's published comments about agency stores and I'm not clear myself. So I would defer an answer to that until I become a board member.
I do, however, recognize that it's a significant issue for people in rural areas. In fact, we are relocating our permanent residence next month to Caledon between Orangeville and Erin. It's interesting to note that Erin has an LCBO store, whereas Hillsburgh, which is a very fast-growing community down the road, has an agency store. It intrigued me, before I ever considered this opportunity, that it would be interesting to find out how these decisions are made. But I can't answer your question today.
Mr Yakabuski: You did comment about how you were very pleased with the improvement in service during Mr Brandt's tenure. I think a component of that improved service certainly has been, for rural people, agency stores. So I thought it would be appropriate that you might have a viewpoint on that, but I understand that you haven't had a chance to examine the whole file carefully at this point.
The Chair: Thank you, Mr Yakabuski. We have just a few minutes, Mr Arnott.
Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): Thank you, Mr Olsson, for answering our questions. We appreciate your interest in serving the people of Ontario in this new capacity.
I'm quite familiar with the communities of Erin and Hillsburgh that you mentioned. I was privileged to represent those communities for nine years, from 1990 to 1999. Like Mr Yakabuski, I think it's a positive development that these agency stores have been established. I've received very few, if any, complaints from constituents when an agency store has been established. I think the service to those local communities that previously had not really had an LCBO store in the confines of the community has been considerably enhanced.
When a provincial government is facing a fiscal challenge, as you can well appreciate, there is pressure put on all aspects of the government's operations to find money, save money, maximize revenue. Yet at the same time the LCBO has an important role in Ontario to be concerned about the social impact of the consumption of alcohol. These two impulses can come into direct conflict, I suggest, at times.
How do you see the LCBO in the next two or three years, moving forward, if the expectation on the part of the government is to maximize revenue, hence maximizing profit going back to the government, while at the same time maintaining its important role to ensure that the sale of beverage alcohol is controlled in the public interest?
Mr Olsson: Number one, I recognize, and I tried to recognize in my statement, that the importance of conceiving of one's role as a board member of the LCBO is not only supervision of the commercial enterprise but also paying careful attention to public policy issues, and that is a particular interest. So the first and simplest answer to your question would be that I would always strive to take that into account.
I think some steps have already been taken, though, because the ministry which the LCBO now reports to, economic development and trade, is separate from the ministry that oversees the licensing organization, the Ontario Alcohol and Gaming Commission, and I think that's a positive development. It's always an uncomfortable relationship when the same party is responsible for selling and limiting the sale of a substance.
Ms Horwath: Mr Olsson, you mentioned in your comments a recent trip where you were sampling wines. I believe it was in France. I'm wondering if you have any opinions or ideas about the way the LCBO has been able to promote Ontario wines and how we might be able to continue to do that.
Mr Olsson: I recognize that this has been a major initiative by the LCBO, and I fully support it. In fact, it was my privilege to be a board member of the Shaw Festival for five years and it was, and still is, the festival's policy to serve nothing but Ontario wines. What their position is on Prince Edward county wines, I can't say. But it did bring me into frequent contact with winery owners, chances to visit wineries and whatnot. I'm very impressed with the progress that's being made with the cold-weather viniculture efforts we have in Ontario. I believe the LCBO does have an important role to continue to develop the economic potential of the Ontario winery.
It seems to me they've made a significant effort. It would be interesting to learn if people feel there are other efforts that could be made that would be consistent with their broader mandate as a consumer organization. I can't really say more than that today, other than I recognize and share your apparent concern for that part of the role.
Ms Horwath: I'm going to switch tracks and talk to you a little bit about the environmental responsibility of the LCBO with regard to recycling programs. You probably know that there are funding transfers to municipalities that occur in that regard. There has also been discussion about the possibility of deposit returns and those kinds of things. Could you talk a little bit about where you see the LCBO going in the future with regard to the recycling of containers?
Mr Olsson: As you're pointing out, they've been transferring in the region of $5 million to municipalities for recycling programs. I don't know how that number is arrived at. I don't know whether that number is high or low. I would like to be educated on it. As an environmentalist myself, in my basic outlook it seems to me important that any organization share the external costs which they're generating in environmental impact. Beyond that, I'd be very interested in hearing about it but I can only at this point acknowledge the concern that that is, I think, something that should be emphasized in the LCBO's business.
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Ms Horwath: Do you have any personal opinion, Mr Olsson, on the deposit-return system and whether it would be feasible for the LCBO to undertake a system like that?
Mr Olsson: That's a balancing of economic and environmental interests and issues and I don't know what the costs and trade-offs are today.
Ms Horwath: Those are my questions. Thank you.
The Chair: That concludes the time allocated. I would just indicate you do have a very impressive resumé, Mr Olsson, and we very much appreciate your coming here this morning and being so forthright and honest. Thank you very much.
PAUL MULLINS
Review of intended appointment, selected by official opposition party: Paul L. Mullins, intended appointee as member, Deposit Insurance Corp of Ontario board of directors.
The Chair: Our fourth interview this morning -- and we're right on time, 11 o'clock, where we should be -- is with Paul Mullins, the intended appointee as member, Deposit Insurance Corp of Ontario board of directors. I would invite Mr Mullins to come forward.
As you may be aware, Mr Mullins, you do have an opportunity to make an opening statement, if you choose. Any time you take would be deducted from the government party questioning. After you make an opening statement, if you do, there will be questions from all members of the committee, and each party has 10 minutes for questions. So I would invite you, if you would like, to make an opening statement.
Mr Paul Mullins: Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have a few written comments, but rather than read them, I prefer to comment on how pleased I am to be here and how surprised I am to be here before this committee. The surprise comes particularly from the fact that when I was asked to let my name stand as a potential nominee to the DICO board, I was asked by Dennis Wipp, the president and CEO of the Woodslee Credit Union. That was in response to a request that had come out from Credit Union Central of Ontario for potential nominees as the Credit Union Central rep to the DICO board. So I agreed to let my name be put forward but I really didn't expect anything to come from it.
In the process they followed, they had an interview committee of the CUCO board, which I appeared before. They interviewed a number of nominees for the position but I assumed throughout that they would have their favourite chosen nominee because I had never been involved in Credit Union Central, I had never been involved at the provincial level within the credit union movement. So I assumed that I was accommodating a need to have a number of names considered, but I really didn't have a great expectation that mine would be the one that would be advanced beyond that point.
My involvement in credit unions had been in the Woodslee Credit Union, and in many ways the Woodslee Credit Union is a key study of what's happened to the credit union system throughout the province over the last 50 or 60 years. My involvement goes back quite some time. My account number is 109. I was still in diapers at the time. The credit union helped me go through law school. I was able to get a loan without collateral and without guarantees. It certainly is something that I'm always grateful for.
In the late 1970s, early 1980s, the credit union, as most credit unions did, went through a period of financial distress. I went on the board at a time when they had accumulated about $3 million in deficits and were losing money at the rate of $1 million a year. Their viability was certainly in jeopardy. We were able to work through that period to the point that we're now a credit union with a quarter of a billion dollars in assets. During that period we've also been approached by eight or 10 other credit unions within Essex county and have gone through voluntary mergers with them so that we now have branches in Kingsville, Leamington, Essex, Harrow, Belle River, and we even have a part-time branch on Pelee Island. The process that Woodslee went through actually has been mirrored throughout the province, because there has been a tremendous consolidation of credit unions throughout that time period.
In any event, I was surprised and pleased that the Credit Union Central was open to someone who had not been part of their group, so to speak, to represent them on the DICO board. DICO, again, had their own nominating committee and, among the ones they considered, they recommended that I be appointed to the board, and the minister brought it to cabinet.
My second surprise came when this committee asked me to appear before it. I was surprised but also pleased, because I took it as an indication that the committee viewed this position as one of some importance to the province. I take it as a recognition that the credit union system as a whole has a great deal to offer to the province and to its economic future, and as a very important alternative to the banks. I was also pleased too -- and it's in this context that I'm probably here -- in that the budget papers indicated a review of the legislation for credit unions, to be able to have input in that and to contribute to that process. As a member of the DICO board, it's something I look forward to doing. Thank you.
The Chair: Thank you very much for that presentation. We are now going to begin with Mr Yakabuski of the Conservative Party.
Mr Yakabuski: Thank you for coming this morning and also for seeking this position. You did indicate that the credit unions themselves or their association, the association of credit unions, were the ones who approached you about sitting on this board or seeking this position. So there was no political involvement in your desire to seek this position, or were you approached by any members of the Liberal Party?
Mr Mullins: No, I wasn't. In fact, it was after the DICO board had indicated they were going to advance my name as their preferred nominee to the minister that I thought I should call my local member as a courtesy, to let him know that this would be going forward to cabinet. I didn't think he should necessarily have to find out rather than from me directly, because I had been supportive of him throughout his political career.
Mr Yakabuski: So you are a member of the Liberal Party?
Mr Mullins: I am a member of the Liberal Party.
Mr Yakabuski: And a financial supporter of the Liberal Party?
Mr Mullins: Yes. My first involvement with the Liberal Party actually was managing Eugene Whelan's campaign.
Mr Yakabuski: That's going back a while.
Mr Mullins: That goes back a long way, that's right.
The Chair: And that is a challenge.
Mr Mullins: That was more than a challenge.
Mr Yakabuski: Did you have to keep his cowboy hat all cleaned up?
Mr Mullins: I was at the office opening for Susan Whelan in Belle River last week. She gave him the courtesy of saying a few words and, 15 minutes later, as she was trying to get out of the room to go to another function, she was trying to cut him off. I interjected to say that when I managed his campaign way back then -- some things never change, because he was incapable of giving a short stump speech even then.
Mr Yakabuski: Well, some things never change for a lot of politicians.
According to the information I have, several years ago you were involved in the set-up of a particular credit union. Have you been involved since that point?
Mr Mullins: In the set-up of a credit union? The only time I was involved in establishing a credit union was when I was in university and I set up a student credit union for the students at St Francis Xavier seminary. I don't recall being involved in any set-up of a credit union beyond that.
Mr Yakabuski: The number of credit unions in Ontario is declining, and the DICO has indicated that this is due to mergers and acquisitions. Do you feel there are any other reasons that the numbers are declining?
Mr Mullins: I think there's a dynamic that's taking place where there's an expectation of getting a certain level of service, and you can't really provide that if you don't have a size to be able to sustain it. I know in our own situation, we have examined the possibility of opening branches in a couple of locations where banks have pulled out. We've determined that in order to provide a full-service facility, we have to have an asset base of $10 million in that branch. There are many credit unions that don't reach that level and can't provide full services unless they are larger.
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Mr Yakabuski: Earlier this year, Gary Seveny, president and CEO of CS Co-op, told the standing committee on finance and economic affairs that the credit unions act needs to be rejuvenated. What do you think he was referring to? Do you believe there need to be changes to that act, and what sort of changes would you recommend?
Mr Mullins: I haven't really studied the issue, and I don't know where he was coming from with regard to it, but I do know there is a difficulty in establishing a common brand throughout the province. I don't know how that can be accomplished with the current legislation. Each of the credit unions are totally independent, and they're going to want to maintain that. I don't think that should be taken away from them. But it's a strength and a weakness, because it reflects the local character but it also doesn't always provide the opportunity to provide the full services that people have come to expect.
There's one thing I know I've raised already and that I would consider to be a real benefit, and that is that currently the deposit insurance is limited to $100,000 per deposit. I think there's a lot of merit that would be had in the concept of an unlimited deposit guarantee. The current guarantees actually guarantee 92% of the deposits. I've had clients who have sold farms or have retired and have been concerned about the level of guarantees available, even within the banks, and in fact go to different institutions to ensure that they would enjoy full guarantees. The reality is, in the credit union system, we can't afford not to honour every deposit, regardless of the size and regardless of the limit on the policy or on the legislation, just because of the credibility that would suffer if we didn't honour it. So I'd like to see a thorough examination of the feasibility of extending it to an unlimited guarantee.
Mr Yakabuski: I bank at a credit union myself in Barry's Bay, and I can tell you I'm very pleased with the work they do. I think they provide good service and a choice for people, and we're glad to see them there.
Ms Horwath: I think you've answered this question somewhat already, but maybe you could expand upon the issues that you see as contributing to the financial health of the overall system. In your resumé, you talk about what you did personally when you were a director of the Woodslee Credit Union and how you turned that organization around. What specific measures do you think can be implemented to ensure the longevity and the health of the credit union system overall?
Mr Mullins: One of the initiatives that DICO has undertaken is bylaw number 5, they call it, where they are encouraging good governance within the credit union: good education of the board members, greater education of the lending officers and the management levels within the credit union. I think that's a critical initiative and one that needs to be pursued even further. We have to be competitive with the banks, but we have to be good financial managers within the credit union system as well. One of my concerns is that we will overreach our capabilities in terms of commercial lending in areas that are more risky than the normal home mortgage type of service. But in a small community, there is a real need for the credit unions to provide lending in the commercial areas. So I think more needs to be done to provide the support and the education, to provide an educated response to that need.
The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr Mullins. We really appreciate your being here this morning, and we wish you all the best.
GORDON KAISER
Review of intended appointment, selected by official opposition party: Gordon Kaiser, intended appointee as member and vice-chair, Ontario Energy Board.
The Chair: Our fifth and final interview this morning is with Gordon Kaiser, the intended appointee as member and vice-chair of the Ontario Energy Board. I would invite Mr Kaiser to come forward at this time. Good morning.
Mr Gordon Kaiser: Good morning.
The Chair: You may be aware that you do have an opportunity to make an initial statement. That time will be deducted from the time allotted to the government party. Then there will be questions from all members of the committee. Each party will have 10 minutes for questions. We go in rotation. I would invite you at this point in time to make whatever statement you might wish.
Mr Kaiser: It's an honour and a privilege to appear before this committee. Energy regulation is a very important matter in this province, and the country for that matter. Probably, second to health, it's the most important area within provincial jurisdiction.
Many years ago I was a student at the University of Toronto at St Michael's College, just around the corner, when the lights went out. That was 1965. Last year we had a repeat of it. I also served as the chief executive officer of a communications company in California for 10 years. There I had the pleasure of experiencing rolling blackouts. They're actually even scarier, because you know they're coming; you just don't know when. In that business we delivered data by satellite to 600 radio stations. That data was used by truckers to know where to pick up their loads.
We had backup generators, but you'd be surprised how many radio stations didn't. The switchboard would light up with truckers all over the state who couldn't find their loads, trying to get home to a daughter's birthday, or a sick mother, or whatever. These are all independent owner-operators. These aren't rich people. These are people who have a hard life, driving all over a country as big as the United States.
It was an interesting realization of the importance of maintaining a stable infrastructure, because that's what happened in California. They had failed to maintain the infrastructure, for a variety of reasons. Of course, as in Ontario, they got hit by unexpected results. The air conditioners were running overtime that summer, as they were last summer. You get these things. It's a difficult industry to plan for. It's a difficult industry to regulate.
I've practised law for 30 years and for most of those 30 years I've been involved in regulation. In fact, my very first client was the North Eastern Ontario Municipal Association -- people up around Timmins -- appearing for them before the Ontario Energy Board, battling with a company called Northern and Central Gas, probably now long since gone. We had the first decision that got a refund. It was interesting trying to figure out who we give the money back to, but we got the refund, we got the money from the gas company in any event. It was actually the first time that the tribunal, the board, awarded costs to an intervener, a practice which they've continued over these past number of years.
From there I went to represent the Association of Municipalities of Ontario. That was a different perspective because those were all the municipalities in the province. After that, during Mr MacCauley's tenure at the board, I became counsel to the board. It was a different perspective entirely.
I've also been very active in telecommunications regulation. I've acted for the federal government. In the year when they were trying to expand competitiveness in telecommunications, I appeared before not only the CRTC but provincial commissions throughout the maritime provinces -- New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island -- as well as in Alberta.
I also served the commissioner of competition in the petroleum products inquiry, interestingly enough, something that's recurred again this year, as it often does during the course of elections. That inquiry took place over three years and had hearings throughout Canada. I have some experience, as well, in the regulatory policy side of things. I taught competition law at Queen's University for 10 years. I taught the economic regulation course at the University of Toronto law school for four years. I've written books in the area and I've written articles in the area. I actually took a year out from my law practice and became the first visiting professor in the law and economics program at University of Toronto a number of years ago.
I had some experience in the regulatory area myself as a regulator. I served as a part-time member of the Ontario Telephone Commission at one point in time.
Since returning to Canada from my time in California, I have practised exclusively on behalf of the Attorney General of Canada, prosecuting cases under the Competition Act. Those mostly involve price-fixing and other forms of consumer fraud, so I have a keen awareness, if you like, of consumer advocacy from that period of time.
In summary, Madam Chair, I appreciate the opportunity to appear here. I realize the importance of this position. Thank you very much.
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The Chair: Thank you very much for the presentation. We're going to begin with the NDP.
Ms Horwath: It's obvious from your comments, as well as the written materials, that you're very experienced and very knowledgeable about the industry overall and the role of the board. I'm wondering, though, with regard to these experiences and this past history, whether you perceive that you will have any conflicts of interest in carrying out your duties.
Mr Kaiser: Happily, I have no conflicts of interest. I've been in California for 10 years, and in the last two years, I've acted strictly for the federal government. The last time I appeared before the board would have been 15 years ago. Everyone's either long gone or dead.
Ms Horwath: So then, in terms of your work with the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, AMO, potential conflicts there?
Mr Kaiser: Yes, I last stopped acting for them, I'm going to say, prior to 1990, probably 1989 or 1988. A long time ago.
Ms Horwath: OK. I was wondering, when we talk about the gas industry, if you see any role there in terms of consumer protection when it comes to natural gas prices, which are all so very, very concerning to the public, to the consumer. Do you see any role?
Mr Kaiser: There's always a role for consumer protection, and protecting the consumer from price increases is the traditional role of these boards. One of the things that you do have to be careful from is, if you create artificially low prices, it's just a question of whether the taxpayer pays or the ratepayer, and in the process, you create the wrong market signals. So a board has to be very careful in evaluating rates independently in the best interests of the public, and in the long-term interests, not some short-term political interest.
Ms Horwath: My understanding is there's an advisory committee that's supposed to be set up but has not yet been set up.
Mr Kaiser: Yes.
Ms Horwath: Can you speak to what you would see the role of the advisory committee being and also the stakeholders that would be appointed to that advisory committee? Who would you see being appropriate -- not in terms of individuals, of course, but in terms of representatives from various parts of our community?
Mr Kaiser: I think it's very important. I don't know the status of that or why it hasn't happened. I can't speak to that. But you notice from some of the previous questioning around this table -- and I experienced it in those years when I acted for the people of northeastern Ontario -- you get different interests, depending on what community people have come from. There is no sort of standard consumer in Ontario.
So the first point I would make is yes, of course, you're going to have representatives of consumers, and you're going to have representatives of large users, but even within that consumer category, you have to be sensitive to certain areas where they may be more dependent on energy. That's one thing.
The other thing -- and I don't know whether the tribunal of the board has thought of this -- is we're going to have to pay a lot more attention in this province and in this country to conservation. I see the government has taken some initiatives, but I would suggest that an important representative on the stakeholder committee, or representatives, is from that conservation community, because we really need to get that message out there. Those are billions of dollars that can be saved, whether that comes from the ratepayer or from the taxpayer, by just more efficient conservation messages. So if there was one constituency that has typically been left out of this dynamic over the years, it's that constituency, and somehow that needs to be dealt with.
The Chair: We'll move to the government.
Mr Parsons: We've read Mr Kaiser's qualifications, and we don't quite understand why he was called. So we have no questions.
Mr Yakabuski: Oh, I think they do understand.
Anyway, Mr Kaiser, I appreciate your coming before us. I certainly do. I do have a few questions. Partly because of the nature of this appointment, I have to ask, are you currently or have you been either a member of the Liberal Party and/or a donor to the Liberal Party of Ontario?
Mr Kaiser: Well I'm not a member of the party. The last time I did anything that I can remember was in 1984, when I knocked on doors for Monte Kwinter. I think that was the first time he was elected, and I believe he's still in the Legislature.
Mr Yakabuski: You did a good job.
Mr Kaiser: I haven't been involved since then. I may have given some money along the way; I don't recall doing it, but that's completely possible.
Mr Yakabuski: Were you approached about this position?
Mr Kaiser: I got a call from the chairman, Mr Wetston; I've known Mr Wetston for 30-odd years. He was Commissioner of Competition. I acted for the government and I also acted against the government, so I was sometimes his friend and sometimes his enemy. He phoned me -- this was last fall -- and asked if I would come up and have a cup of coffee with him. He said, "Would you be interested in being the general counsel?" I said I didn't think so. He said, "Would you be interested in being a vice-chair?" I said, "That might be interesting." So I sent him my resumé, and I got a call from somebody in the government asking would I fill out a form -- make an application -- which I did. That's the extent of the involvement I've had in the process.
Mr Yakabuski: That actually brings me to my next question. First of all, this is a full-time appointment.
Mr Kaiser: Yes.
Mr Yakabuski: Do you know how much it pays?
Mr Kaiser: No, not exactly.
Mr Yakabuski: One of the jobs -- Ms Horwath talked about that -- is electricity pricing. One of the tasks is developing a strategy with regard to energy pricing. You talked about conservation, and some people would say that one of the conservation strategies needs to be a disincentive to use electricity, which some people would consider to be price increases. Given the statement by the Minister of Energy yesterday, I think there are a lot of people out there who feel and believe this announcement is going to lead to significant increases in energy prices.
Given that the commitment made last year that they would maintain a price cap of 4.3 cents through 2006 has not been honoured, there are a lot of people in the province who are struggling with hydro rates. They're now struggling with a health care tax and other taxes that have been brought forward by the new government in their first budget. Do you have a position as to where we are going with energy prices in the province and how that might impact consumers and the economy if prices go too high?
Mr Kaiser: The government gave a reference to the energy board to report back by May 2005 as to a new form of rate-setting that could handle this. In yesterday's announcement there was also reference to the fact that the OEB will be charged with regulating rates for low-volume and residential consumers, so the board is going to have a hearing on that. It would be wrong for me to comment at this point. There will be a lot of evidence presented from a lot of interested parties; hopefully some innovative schemes will come forward. It's a very serious issue.
As I said at the outset, there are no quick fixes, unfortunately, because you end up paying for these things one way or another. The board is going to have to put all of its best resources on it and come up with the best possible solution -- I don't want to use the term "politically expedient," but to try to do the best possible job for the consumer and the public interest long term. If you have artificial rates and you run out of power, that's not going to solve anything.
Mr Yakabuski: Thank you for that answer.
I had a question with regard to your appointment as vice-chair, but it was along the same lines as the replacement of Jim Ginou with David Crombie at Ontario Place. But if Mr Wetston himself called you, I trust you won't be bucking for his job.
Mr Kaiser: You have to know Mr Wetston. He specifically told me, "You're not getting my job."
Mr Yakabuski: And you believed him.
One of the other things I wanted to ask you about is of concern to myself as one who has LDCs in my riding. There's talk about Hydro One wanting to eliminate all these small utilities. The Ottawa River Power Corp in my riding is one of the most efficient ones we've ever seen. It's small and makes a profit every year. Then you've got Ottawa Hydro, which serves half a million customers and loses millions of dollars. Yet there seems to be a movement out there to try to eliminate some of these small utilities. I'd like to know your views as to where we might be going in that regard.
Mr Kaiser: It's not something I've studied, but I spent a lot of time in Kingston. I did an economics degree there, taught there and did a law degree there. Of course, they had Kingston Hydro. I used to read about it in the papers all the time. There are advantages in having local agencies; people are in touch with them. You have to balance that with inefficiencies that sometimes come as a result of size, and you have to deal with it on a case-by-case basis. There's no general rule. You can't categorize all of them, because each is a special case.
Mr Yakabuski: In Minister Duncan's press release yesterday, there are a number of changes that are planned. Have you had a chance to read over that press release?
Mr Kaiser: I've looked at the press release.
Mr Yakabuski: Would you be prepared to comment at this time on any of the initiatives that were made in that press release?
Mr Kaiser: I think some of them are -- "obvious" is the wrong term. Clearly somebody -- and the Ontario Power Authority has been established for the purpose -- needs to take a cold, calculating look at what the requirements are over the long term. Something like 25,000 megawatts are going to be required over the next 10 years or so. That's 80% of the current capacity. So there are going to be significant investments, and they have to be made efficiently. I think it's a good concept for somebody to step back and say, "Let's start with a clean piece of paper." I know it sounds like this thing has been studied to death, but as we saw from last year it's pretty critical. As I've said, creating this conservation secretariat, or whatever they call it, with a chief conservation officer, is important. Now, the devil is in the details. It may be all smoke and mirrors for all I know, but hopefully it's not. Certainly it's a step in the right direction.
Mr Yakabuski: Just one other thing: I did want to mention that up until yesterday, I have to confess, I didn't even know who you were, and I would not have met you. But I had a chance to talk to former energy minister John Baird, and he told me that he felt you would be a very positive appointment.
Mr Kaiser: I appreciate that.
Mr Yakabuski: He spoke very highly of you. Thank you very much for coming in today.
The Chair: Mr Kaiser, on that note, that concludes the interview, but we certainly do appreciate the experience you bring to the job and your being here today to respond to questions.
We are now finished our interviews. All five of them are complete. We'll begin with consideration of the intended appointment of James Attwood, intended appointee as member, town of Midland Police Services Board.
Mr Parsons: I move concurrence.
The Chair: Concurrence in the appointment is moved by Mr Parsons. Any discussion? If not, all in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.
We will now consider the intended appointment of Catherine Anne Novick, intended appointee as member, North York Community Care Access Centre board of directors.
Mr Parsons: I move concurrence
The Chair: Concurrence in the appointment has been moved by Mr Parsons. Any discussion? All in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.
We will now consider the intended appointment of Philip Olsson, intended appointee as member and vice-chair of the Liquor Control Board of Ontario.
Mr Parsons: I move concurrence.
The Chair: Concurrence in the appointment has been moved by Mr Parsons. Any discussion? If not, all in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.
We will now consider the intended appointment of Paul Mullins, intended appointee as member, Deposit Insurance Corp of Ontario board of directors.
Mr Parsons: Again I move concurrence.
The Chair: Concurrence in the appointment has been moved by Mr Parsons. Any discussion? If not, all in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.
Finally, we will consider the intended appointment of Gordon Kaiser, intended appointee as member and vice-chair, Ontario Energy Board.
Mr Parsons: Again I am pleased to move concurrence.
The Chair: Concurrence in the appointment has been moved by Mr Parsons. Any discussion? All in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.
Is there any further discussion on any issue?
That adjourns our meeting, and I'm pleased to inform you that it appears that next week we may be starting at 8:30. It's possible it may be 8 o'clock. We're still looking to interview one additional individual.
Thank you very much for being here, and our congratulations to the appointees.
The committee adjourned at 1133.
CONTENTS
Wednesday 16 June 2004
Subcommittee report A-127
Intended appointments A-127
Mr James Attwood A-127
Ms Catherine Anne Novick A-128
Mr Philip Olsson A-130
Mr Paul Mullins A-133
Mr Gordon Kaiser A-135
STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES
Chair / Présidente
Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo PC)
Vice-Chair / Vice-Président
Mr David Orazietti (Sault Ste Marie L)
Mr Lorenzo Berardinetti (Scarborough Southwest / Scarborough-Sud-Ouest L)
Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay / Timmins-Baie James ND)
Mr Michael A. Brown (Algoma-Manitoulin L)
Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North / Thunder Bay-Superior-Nord L)
Mr David Orazietti (Sault Ste Marie L)
Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings L)
Ms Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock PC)
Ms Monique M. Smith (Nipissing L)
Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Barrie-Simcoe-Bradford PC)
Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo PC)
Substitutions / Membres remplaçants
Ms Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East / Hamilton-Est ND)
Mr John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke PC)
Also taking part / Autres participants et participantes
Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington PC)
Clerk / Greffière
Ms Anne Stokes
Staff / Personnel
Mr Larry Johnston, research officer, Research and Information Services