Wednesday 18 December 1991

Pin for members


Chair: Duignan, Noel (Halton North NDP)

Vice-Chair: Frankford, Robert (Scarborough East NDP)

Cooper, Mike (Kitchener-Wilmot NDP)

Farnan, Mike (Cambridge NDP)

Jamison, Norm (Norfolk NDP)

Marland, Margaret (Mississauga South PC)

Mathyssen, Irene (Middlesex NDP)

McClelland, Carman (Brampton North L)

Morin, Gilles E. (Carleton East L)

O'Neil, Hugh P. (Quinte L)

Owens, Stephen (Scarborough Centre NDP)

Villeneuve, Noble (S-D-G & East Grenville PC)

Substitution: Mills, Gordon (Durham East NDP) for Mrs Mathyssen

Clerk: Arnott, Douglas

Staff: Yeager, Lewis, Research Officer, Legislative Research Service

The committee met at 1607 in room 151.

The Chair: Seeing a quorum present, I call the standing committee on the Legislative Assembly to order.

Mr Owens: I would like to welcome Doug Arnott back to Toronto, especially to our committee. I am sure you were well treated in Ottawa. However, I am sure it does not match the warm feelings we have for you here. Welcome back.


The Chair: Thank you, Mr Owens. Turning to the agenda before the committee this evening, the first item of business is a review of the pin for members. At this time I would ask Karyn Leonard, the director of the interparliamentary and public relations branch, to come forward. I understand you have a copy of the pin to show us.

Mrs Leonard: Yes, I have. We have, at your request, gone back to our designer, and they have come to us with another design which is a result of the special requests you made. I will pass it to you and you can pass it around, and while you are passing it around I will go through the different points you had asked for specifically.

You had asked that the mace have a more detailed replica, more in keeping with the actual mace. In a design like this, they realize they will have to, in a final format, before we have a sign-off on it produce an exact replica, so they are quite prepared to do that closer to the completion of the pin.

You had also asked that "Legislative Assembly of Ontario" be embossed along the edge of the pin. That also is no problem. That is not on this design, the reason being, again, that it is a mock-up of a pin as opposed to the final thing, but it can go on there without a problem. We must provide the supplier with the artwork, of course.

The prototype pin you have for the ladies has a joint catch and pin. I think the ladies looking at it at the moment will agree that the little clasp on the top that flips up and down works quite well if you wish to wear it on a pendant, and the pin will also work on a finer fabric.

The grip-fast clasp, which I have here as well if you are interested in seeing it, is what would be on the men's pin. An individual security number would be stamped on the back of each pin, and we would provide the supplier with those individual numbers. Again, it would depend upon which design members were to choose. The ladies would have the choice of either style; they would not necessarily have to go with the one with the little clip on it.

Our delivery time is approximately six weeks, so when you do make a decision, if your decision is to agree with what you see today, if you have any thoughts on it I would appreciate hearing that. I am very concerned, of course, with your decision about where the mace is going to fall, if indeed that is where you want it to fall or not.

Mrs Marland: My observation is that all the comments we have submitted, I think in three submissions now, have been met. I notice that the mace no longer protrudes out of the outside circle of the pin, so it will not catch on anything. This is absolutely beautiful; I think it is beautifully done. Can I see the back of it? The only comment I would make, if the women order it and that is the largest loop they can put, it is a very small thing if they want to wear it on a chain.

Mrs Leonard: They are prepared to work with us on that as well, if you are interested in obtaining a chain that would be specifically for that pin. They are prepared to work with us on that, so individual people could obtain a chain that would be --

Mrs Marland: I have a chain. Probably most of us have chains. They have done a beautiful job on the design of the pin, still including the amethyst, which was the suggestion of the Speaker and which I think was a great suggestion. It looks fabulous.

Mr H. O'Neil: I have a couple of suggestions. I like the design of the front of the pin, but I see that the back is this pin. To me, those are the worst things you can ever get hold of, where you slide this up and you have to put this through, for the women a blouse or a silk dress or something like that. It just pulls when you get the thing on there.

I was having a look at some of the federal pins. The federal pin is something like the men's pin with the single pin that goes through, so it does not slide back and forth like on the safety pin idea. Rather than just having it pushed in and hoping it will hold, the federal pin turns on a screw on the back; in other words, when you insert that through, this part, rather than just catching on it actually screws on to that pin that goes through. It is much more secure, and to me, just a better type of pin.

Mrs Marland: The only problem, Hugh, if I may, is that it is fine for a man if he has a buttonhole; you can put that thicker screw pin through. But for a woman -- I think it would be fair to speak for the women -- we do not like the stickpins. For one thing, if it is on something thin we have that big backer on it. We would prefer a brooch-type for women.

Mr H. O'Neil: You speak better for women than I do. For the men's pin, then, the only suggestion I would make is that the way it is, rather than just popping in there and hopefully being secure, it still shakes a little bit. If you had something like the federal men's pin, it goes through and screws on so that it cannot pop up or come off. But it is, as Margaret says, quite attractive.

Mrs Marland: I congratulate them.

Mr Owens: I agree with Margaret and Hugh that the pin is in fact a beautiful design and does incorporate the suggestions this committee has made, as well as the Speaker.

I also appreciate Hugh's request with respect to the screw fastener. I think that is a great idea, and I think we should move forward with the suggestions. Hopefully at our first meeting in the spring, we can have a look at the final design.

Mrs Marland: Another four months? If this can be ready for six weeks, why do we not approve it today?

Mr Owens: I have no problem approving it. It is just getting the suggestions incorporated.

Mrs Marland: If the suggestion is having one style for women with the brooch-type pin on the back and the stickpin with a screw thread on it for the men, those comments have been heard.

It would give me a great deal of pleasure to move a motion, Mr Chairman, to approve this pin for which I have now been lobbying six and a half years. I am really happy that the Ontario members of Parliament are now going to have an identifying pin to wear, from a security point of view primarily, but also for the reason that it has been helpful for all the years that federal members of Parliament have worn a similar identifying pin. I congratulate the people who have been working to come to this final design and the time and effort of our staff here in the Legislative Assembly on this matter also.

Mr Owens: I was going to move a motion, but I think this has clearly been Margaret's pet project and it would give me great pleasure to yield that honour to her.

The Chair: Margaret, did you wish to move the motion?

Mrs Marland: I think I just did.

The Chair: Sorry. There is a motion on the floor. Is there any debate on the motion? Hearing no debate on the motion, is it the pleasure of the committee that the motion carry unanimously?

Motion agreed to.

The Chair: Again, on behalf of the Chair and on behalf of the committee, I offer my congratulations. I think we have an excellent product here, and I know all members of the House will be proud to wear that pin. Thank you very much.

Mrs Leonard: Thank you very much. We will look forward to revealing the final. In a very short time actually, you should have it, Mrs Marland.

Mrs Marland: I can put it on my Christmas list?

Mrs Leonard: Yes, I think you can this time.

The Chair: Thank you. Before we go into our closed session and discussion dealing with security, is there any other business before the committee? I have one as Chair, if you indulge me for a few minutes; that is, that the subcommittee did not meet today because of circumstances and, as this is the last committee meeting of the session, I look for the committee to delegate authority to the Chair and to the subcommittee to deal with the planning of the upcoming spring break committee meetings and then reporting back to the committee on its first meeting in the spring break.

Mr H. O'Neil: Why could we not settle some of that today?

The Chair: As I understand it, we are not too sure exactly what this committee will be doing at this point. There has been some discussion that this committee could deal with parliamentary reform or that it could deal with another matter that has been the subject of question period for the last couple of weeks. At this point, the Chair is at a disadvantage in that I am not too sure yet what the agenda will be.

Mr H. O'Neil: So what you are proposing is that the subcommittee would meet when?

The Chair: As soon as the agenda becomes clear as to exactly what the House leaders want to happen.

Mrs Marland: The subcommittee is at the call of the Chair. If the other members were out of town, we do have three members of this committee that are fairly close. We could meet with you, Mr Chairman, or have a conference telephone call with you. I am sure those concerns can easily be met.

Mr H. O'Neil: The idea of a conference call is a good one. We do not know what is going to happen, and some of us may be out to our ridings or some may be in Toronto. I think that is an excellent idea.

The Chair: Thank you for the suggestion. Any further comments? I see none. Is there any other business for the committee before we go into closed session?

As Chair of the committee, I wish all members of the committee a happy Christmas and a prosperous new year. Thank you for your co-operation and non-partisanship during the year. Hopefully, this committee will continue to operate that way in 1992. Thank you.

Mrs Marland: Thank you. We return your felicitations and especially agree with the comments about it being, as far as possible, a non-partisan committee. I think that is why we do work so well together.

The Chair: Thank you, Margaret. This committee will now go into closed session for a discussion of security with the Sergeant at Arms and Barbara Speakman. Is the Speaker in attendance as well? Thank you. This committee is now in closed session.

The committee continued in camera at 1620.