44e législature, 1re session

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Wednesday 29 October 2025 Mercredi 29 octobre 2025

Private Members’ Public Business

Veterans

 

 

 

Report continued from volume A.

1800

Private Members’ Public Business

Veterans

Mr. Dave Smith: I move that, in the opinion of the House, the government of Ontario should, on behalf of Ontario veterans and their families, ask Veterans Affairs Canada to assume responsibility for mistakes on the Presence in Absence memorial and apologize to the living veterans who were wrongly identified as fallen soldiers and to the families of deceased soldiers whose names were left off the monument.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos): Mr. Smith, Peterborough–Kawartha, has moved private member’s notice of motion number 15. Pursuant to standing order 100, the member has 12 minutes for their presentation.

Mr. Dave Smith: I want to start off with—I know that we’re asking Veterans Affairs to apologize. But this is one of those cases where I think they were trying to do the honourable thing, but they made a lot of mistakes.

For those of you who don’t know, the Presence in Absence monument—there were two of them that were put up on the Highway of Heroes between Trenton and Bowmanville: one on the eastbound lane; one on the westbound lane. The purpose of it was to honour veterans who paid the ultimate sacrifice in Afghanistan. It truly was something that was very honourable that they were trying to do. However, they made so many mistakes, and they created so many problems as a result of it.

This first came to my office through a veteran from my riding, the Honorary Colonel, retired Major Lee-Anne Quinn. She was the Honorary Colonel for the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment just a couple of years ago. She also served multiple tours as a UN peacekeeper. She was in Somalia, she was in Croatia, and she was in Afghanistan.

She’s a nurse practitioner, so some of the deceased veterans were actually people who, as a nurse practitioner, she saw and wasn’t able to save. She was listed on the monument as someone who was killed in action in Afghanistan.

Also from my riding, Corporal Nicholas Bulger was one of the first veterans who was killed in Afghanistan, and Major Quinn knew the family. He was left off the monument. When Major Quinn found out about being put on the monument inadvertently and the fact that Corporal Bulger was not, it started a process for her that wasn’t a positive process. She reached out to the Bulger family and apologized for her being put on the monument and Nick not being put on the monument.

As I said, Major Quinn was involved in some of the more difficult peacekeeping missions. She saw colleagues killed in action. Being placed on this monument, to be honoured as someone who paid the ultimate sacrifice, put her in a position where she has been experiencing significant PTSD.

With Major Quinn’s permission, her therapist reached out to me and described some of the challenges that she was going through and why this was something that was so difficult for her to deal with.

There were 157 Canadian Armed Forces soldiers who were killed in Afghanistan; 67 individuals were honoured on this monument. Of those 67, 16 were veterans who were still alive; four were never veterans. They were never part of the Canadian Armed Forces. Four civilians were listed as veterans killed in action. And the monument itself had silhouettes of each of these veterans, so you know they were trying to do the right thing; they truly were.

But they had to pull up pictures of each of these individuals, and when you do a search, something as simple as Google, on these names and you see that they’re still alive—yes, you get the photo of them. It was those photos that they were using for the silhouettes. If you do a search for Honorary Colonel, retired Major Lee-Anne Quinn, you will see the picture that they used for the silhouette. It’s the first one that comes up, and it talks about her. I did this search to find out. It’s from a Peterborough Examiner newspaper article and it talks about the great work she is currently doing in Peterborough as a nurse practitioner. That’s the first image of her that comes up, and the story is from 2020.

So you know in 2020 she wasn’t killed in Afghanistan, yet Veterans Affairs listed her. And she’s not the only one. There are a couple of others that I have to point out that—how could Veteran Affairs make this big of a mistake?

General Roméo Dallaire is listed on that monument as being killed in action in Afghanistan. When he retired from the Armed Forces, Justin Trudeau appointed him to the Senate. He was a senator for us until just a couple of years ago; he clearly had not died in Afghanistan. I could understand if they made a mistake on someone that was a new recruit, but this is one of our most decorated generals, and he’s not alone.

General Lewis MacKenzie was listed and his image, his silhouette, was put on this monument as someone killed in Afghanistan. General MacKenzie helped Ontario during COVID. Clearly, this was a mistake, and Veterans Affairs—all they have done is they’ve removed the monument. To their credit, they took the monument down. But they’ve never acknowledged that they made a mistake.

It’s bad enough that we have 16 people who inadvertently were listed as being killed who were on it. There are 47 Ontario-born veterans who were killed in Afghanistan who are not on this monument—47 families were forgotten; 47 veterans who stepped up and paid the ultimate sacrifice, and Veterans Affairs effectively forgot them.

Now, I recognize that the current Minister of Veterans Affairs was not the person who commissioned this. She was not the person who agreed to it. She’s not the person who oversaw this. I understand that, and I’m not blaming her for it. But I have reached out to her. I have sent her a letter and asked her to take responsibility for this, to apologize to those families that were left off, to apologize to the living veterans who were inadvertently put on.

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Whenever you talk about veterans, whenever we listen to veterans talk, they talk about the camaraderie, about the friendships, about how they were brothers in arms. Imagine the guilt that they all feel.

C.S. Lewis said, “I can’t go back and rewrite the beginning, but starting today, I can write a new ending.” I’m asking Veterans Affairs: Correct the injustice. Write a new ending. Apologize to those families.

These are the veterans who were left off; I want their families to know we remember them and we honour them:

—Corporal Glen Harold Arnold;

—Corporal Joshua Caleb Baker;

—Corporal Robbie Christopher Beerenfenger;

—Petty Officer Second Class Douglas Craig Blake;

—Corporal Anthony Joseph Boneca;

—Private Jack Bouthillier;

—Warrant Officer Dennis Raymond Brown;

—Corporal Nicholas Ashley Bulger;

—Private David Robert James Bryer;

—Private Darryl James Caswell;

—Private Garrett William Chidley;

—Private Robert Howard Costall;

—Corporal Tyler Crooks

—Private William Jonathan James Cushley;

—Captain Matthew Johnathan Dawe;

—Private Marc Hani Diab;

—Corporal Matthew David James Dinning;

—Private Demetrios Diplaros;

—Corporal Brendan Anthony Downey;

—Sergeant Shawn Allen Eades;

—Sergeant John Wayne Faught;

—Private Michael Bruce Freeman;

—Master Corporal Kristal Lee-Anne Giesebrecht;

—Sergeant Martin Rene Goudreault;

—Corporal Andrew Paul Grenon;

—Private Joshua James Klukie;

—Master Corporal Anthony Mark Klumpenhouwer;

—Captain Richard Steven Leary;

—Sergeant Marc Daniel Léger;

—Corporal Patrick Joseph Lormand;

—Corporal Matthew Jonathan McCully;

—Private Kevin Thomas McKay;

—Corporal Mark Robert McLaren;

—Major Michelle Linda Mendes;

—Private Andrew Christopher Alexander Miller;

—Corporal Robert Thomas James Mitchell;

—Colonel Geoffrey Stephen Parker;

—Corporal Randy Joseph Payne;

—Corporal Brent Donald Poland;

—Master Corporal Darrell Jason Priede;

—Major Raymond Mark Ruckpaul;

—Corporal Albert Hugh Storm;

—Private Tyler William Todd;

—Lieutenant William Montague Turner;

—Master Corporal Scott Francis Vernelli;

—Private Blake Neil Williamson;

—Private Mark Andrew Wilson; and

—Warrant Officer Robert John Wilson.

We remember you. Thank you for your service.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos): I recognize the member for St. Catharines.

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: It is always a pleasure to be able to rise in this House and speak on a motion that is dedicated to any fallen soldier or any fallen military service member who has taken the ultimate sacrifice. I take great pride in being able to represent veterans, veterans’ affairs, militaries and Legions across Ontario as the official opposition shadow government.

Speaker, this motion is about more than just monuments; it’s about respect, accuracy and honour, the core values we owe to those who served our country and to their families who have borne the weight of that service.

This issue is deeply personal to me. As everyone knows here in this House, and if you don’t, I am a proud mother of a son who serves in the Royal Canadian Navy. Every time I see him put on that uniform, I feel quite worried—a worry that only parents of a service member truly understand.

I also think of my dear childhood friend Dennis Brown from St. Catharines. Dennis made the ultimate sacrifice for this country. He travelled down the Highway of Heroes, honoured by strangers who lined overpasses, waving flags, saluting and showing their love for a young man most of them really never met. For me, Dennis’s journey down that highway was not an abstract moment; it was personal. It was heartbreak and pride intertwined. It was the price of freedom carried home on Canadian soil.

When I hear that a memorial meant to honour heroes like my true friend Dennis contains serious mistakes, it hits me very deeply. These are not clerical errors; they are failures of remembrance, and they deserve to be addressed with urgency, humility and care.

Let’s be clear about what happened. The Presence in Absence memorial, meant to stand as a lasting tribute to Ontario’s fallen, includes names of living veterans who were mistakenly listed as deceased. Now, everyone here, let’s just imagine: Imagine being a veteran visiting that memorial, only to find your own name etched in the stone, suggesting that you had died in service. And imagine the pain for families of those who did make that ultimate sacrifice, discovering that their loved one’s name was left off entirely. These errors compound the grief and the confusion for families, and this undermined the very purpose of the monument, which is to honour, not to harm.

Madam Speaker, we cannot shrug this off as a simple administrative oversight. A memorial is sacred ground. Every name carved into it carries weight. Each represents a life, each represents a family and each represents a story of courage and loss.

The motion before us is not about blame; it’s about responsibility, Madam Speaker—a word that should never feel like a burden when it comes to our veterans.

Today, it’s also the right thing that the government of Ontario speak up on behalf of the veterans and their families, because this monument stands on Ontario soil; because these are Ontario’s sons, these are Ontario’s daughters and Ontario communities and Ontario stories etched into a memorial.

Our role as representatives in this Legislature is to advocate fiercely for those who serve, especially when they’ve been done wrong, even if it was unintentional. An apology is not weak; it is strength. When governments apologize sincerely, they help heal wounds that may never fully close.

To the veterans who saw their names mistakenly listed as fallen, we owe you a clear and public acknowledgement that this was wrong. To the families who found their loved one’s name was missing, we owe you the assurance that their services will always be recognized and always remembered correctly.

And to all who serve today, including my son, we owe a promise that we will take care to get it right when we honour your service; that we will treat your stories with the respect and diligence they deserve. Across Ontario, communities have shown time and time again their deep respect for our veterans. We see it in small towns in every corner of this province when we gather every November 11, standing in silence at our cenotaph. It’s nationwide, Madam Speaker, that we do that.

We see it on overpasses of the Highway of Heroes, where people still come—in rain, in snow, in the blistering cold—to pay tribute to our fallen. We see it in Legions. We see that they serve as community anchors, places where veterans and families come together to support one another.

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These communities deserve a government that listens, that shares their sense of duty to honour our veterans properly. All of us, as elected officials, shall do that.

This motion is one small but meaningful way to show that the voices of veterans and their families matter. Every generation says, “Lest we forget.” But remembering requires more than words; it requires careful attention and responsible actions.

When errors like these occur and are left unaddressed, we risk eroding the trust of those who served and their families. We must demonstrate that when mistakes happen, we will face them openly and fix them very quickly. That’s what respect looks like. We cannot change the past, but we can change how we respond to it. And that’s exactly what this motion is calling for.

In closing, I want to return to where I began: the image of Dennis Brown, my childhood friend, honoured on the Highway of Heroes. Every name on a veterans’ memorial carries a story like Dennis’s—a story of courage, a story of love, a story of our country and sacrifice. These names are not just inscriptions on stone; they are promises kept—promises that we, the living, will remember. When those names are wrong, it’s not just a bureaucratic error; it’s actually a broken promise.

So, today, let’s reaffirm that promise. Let’s call on Veterans Affairs Canada today and ask them, “Will you do the right thing and correct these mistakes and restore faith in how we honour our heroes?”, because they deserve no less; because Dennis deserves no less; because every veteran, every family, every Ontarian who has ever stood on the side of the Highway of Heroes and whispered “thank you for all you’ve done” deserves no less.

Speaker, I do urge all members of this House to think about this. I want to finish by saying, “A nation reveals itself not only by the men and women it produces, but by the men and women it remembers,” quoted by President John F. Kennedy.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos): Further debate?

Mrs. Karen McCrimmon: Thanking veterans for their service is an absolutely essential expression of gratitude for the sacrifices that they have made in defence of our freedoms and our way of life. Veterans endure hardships, long separations from loved ones, and the physical and emotional challenges that come with military service. Many servicemen and servicewomen have paid the ultimate sacrifice, sacrificing their lives in the service of their country. It is a debt that we should never ever stop repaying. By acknowledging their dedication, we honour the courage, discipline and sense of duty that protect our nation’s values. Just a simple “thank you” reminds veterans that their efforts are seen and appreciated.

When we take the time to thank veterans, whether through public ceremonies, community service or personal gestures, we strengthen national pride and empathy. This collective gratitude ensures that their sacrifices are never forgotten and that future generations understand the profound debt we owe to those who have served.

The Highway of Heroes Tree Campaign had as its mission the planting of two million trees in the communities along the Highway of Heroes—Highway 401—as a tribute to the men and women who served Canada during wartime and as a living memorial to the 117,00 Canadians who died in the service of their country.

The Highway of Heroes Tree Campaign was funded by a mix of governments, corporate and charitable donors, including Veterans Affairs Canada and their commemorative partnerships program, Natural Resources Canada, and the government of Ontario.

The Presence in Absence monument is a sculpture by Ruth Abernethy, located at an ONroute service plaza on Highway 401 near Trenton. It was created to commemorate the Highway of Heroes Trees for Life campaign, and it honours fallen Canadian Armed Forces members with the silhouettes of their service members. Unfortunately, a plaque that was used to accompany the Presence in Absence monument, which has since been removed, incorrectly identified service members who did not lose their lives. This obviously has brought tremendous grief and trauma to those who were improperly identified.

Speaker, it should be noted that the monument itself was not paid for or consulted upon by Veterans Affairs Canada, Natural Resources Canada or the government of Ontario, the three public entities that funded the Highway of Heroes Tree Campaign. My office contacted the Presence in Absence group, the ones behind the monument, and they confirmed that they alone funded the monument and they alone produced the faulty list of service members. They took full responsibility. They were tremendously apologetic for their errors and they advised that the member responsible for wrongly identifying the service members no longer works for their organization.

My office also confirmed that Veterans Affairs had no role in verifying the list of service members. Mistakes were made here, yes, but I don’t think they were made by the members of Veterans Affairs Canada. These people work hard for veterans. Are mistakes made? Yes, sometimes mistakes are made. But this isn’t one of theirs. They had nothing to do with this project, but they have reached out to the Presence in Absence group to try and get it fixed. They didn’t have anything to do with its installation, but now they’re going to work hard to try and get it fixed.

I would have a couple of suggestions. If this government really wants to do something for veterans—and this is what I want to say—help veterans and their families find a family doctor after retirement. It’s the hardest thing they go through when they leave the military, where your medical treatment is looked after by the military. Finding a family doctor afterwards is just near impossible.

Provide the programs. I know some are funded. There are programs out there to help veterans find meaningful work after retirement. It matters, but we can do more. We’ve done some, but we can do more.

My final one: Make the Union Pearson Express, the UP, free for military members, including reservists and veterans. That would be an acknowledgement of sacrifices that were made.

So I’m happy to be able to stand up and talk about the way that we need to treat our veterans. We should always stand up for them when we see something wrong. We should always speak up, and I’m glad that the member saw something wrong and spoke up. But I think the men and women who work hard in VAC deserve an apology, because it wasn’t their error; it was the error of the Presence in Absence group, who were so apologetic on the phone and who really wanted to make things right.

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That’s all I wanted to say. Thank you, Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos): Further debate?

Mr. Will Bouma: Thank you, Speaker. I’ll start with this—good to see you in the chair.

 

In Flanders fields the poppies blow

Between the crosses, row on row,

That mark our place; and in the sky

The larks, still bravely singing, fly

Scarce heard amid the guns below.

 

We are the dead. Short days ago

We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,

Loved and were loved and now we lie,

In Flanders fields.

 

Take up our quarrel with the foe:

To you from failing hands we throw

The torch; be yours to hold it high.

If ye break faith with us who die

We shall not sleep, though poppies grow

In Flanders fields.

 

Speaker, motion 15 says, quite simply, “That, in the opinion of the House, the government of Ontario should, on behalf of Ontario veterans and their families, ask Veterans Affairs Canada to assume responsibility for mistakes on the ‘Presence in Absence’ memorial and apologize to the living veterans who were wrongly identified as fallen soldiers and to the families of the deceased soldiers whose names were left off of the monument.” It seems simple.

I was raised in an immigrant household. I’m an immigrant myself. My father could remember being liberated by Canadian soldiers at the tail end of the Second World War. We were raised in a home that had fierce respect for veterans, for those who survived.

I can remember, when I was living in Michigan, waiting for a store to open, seeing in front of me a car with a licence plate—they do that there—saying “World War II veteran.” And I got out of the car as the doors were opening and followed behind an old man, and I just said, “Sir, I want to thank you.” He turned around and he looked at me like I had three heads, and he said, “For what?” And I said, “I couldn’t help but notice your licence plate, and I wanted to thank you for your service. My parents were liberated in the Second World War.” And the man started weeping, and he said, “It’s been 50 years, and no one has ever said that to me.” He was a Marine, and he had been on all those little islands, fighting his way to Japan, and someone finally said, “Thank you.”

So I completely agree that honouring our veterans is the absolute best thing to do. In fact, I just heard of a young man, one of our armed forces who had been serving in Ukraine, who stepped on a mine and just had his leg blown off. We pray for him and his family and that he would be well.

Speaker, we make mistakes. We know that. We do it. I mean, most of the time that we spend in this place is solving the mistakes that were made by previous governments years ago. And if we stay in government long enough, we’ll be solving our own mistakes. It’s not about if we make mistakes—we will—it’s about what we do when we make mistakes, and this should be an easy thing to make right.

I just heard the member from Kanata–Carleton speak, and I don’t think that it’s a problem for Veterans Affairs to assume responsibility for this mistake, even though it may not be theirs, and make it right. I think that’s the right thing to do and that’s a great way of honouring our veterans and for Veterans Affairs to stand up.

It doesn’t matter whose fault it is; someone needs to take responsibility for something that happened already now years ago—was taken down years ago—and still hasn’t been made right.

I’ve heard tell that one of the Premier of Ontario’s magic powers is his ability to actually apologize and mean it. Maybe the opposition won’t agree with me on that, but that’s one of the reasons why I so appreciate the opportunity to be able to serve with the Premier: because I know when he’s apologized to me, he means it, and then we make it right.

This is an opportunity to make this mistake right. I would urge all members in this House to vote in favour of this non-binding motion to make this mistake right for the sake of those who have been willing to sacrifice everything for our country.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos): Further debate?

Mr. Lorne Coe: As an associate member of Royal Canadian Legion Branches 152 and 112 in Whitby, I’m always pleased when I have the opportunity to speak about the bravery of our veterans. Speaker, one owes respect to the living. To the dead, one owes only the truth.

Throughout our great province, there are monuments situated in towns and cities as beacons of gratitude for the sacrifices made by countless brave souls in the pursuit of peace and freedom. These monuments are in memory of not only those who fell, but all of those who served in any capacity in a struggle for humanity and civilization: the mothers, fathers and all who had a part.

The Presence in Absence memorial monument originally listed the names of 67 people in honour and memorial. It stood as a reminder that freedom is never free. It called upon us to remember the lessons of history, to cherish the peace we enjoy and to commit ourselves to the principles of justice and democracy. It has since been found, though, that 12 of these individuals were incorrectly identified as having passed, three were spelled incorrectly, and four never even served in the Canadian Armed Forces.

What is truly sad is that the plaque on the monument was removed without being corrected and replaced by Veterans Affairs Canada. It’s beyond time for Veterans Affairs Canada to make amends. It needs to happen now, without delay, whether it’s the veterans that were wrongly listed as deceased or the veterans that were not even recognized on this memorial.

Some gave their lives so that we live ours, so that our sons and daughters and granddaughters might grow up to pursue their dreams, so that a wife might be able to live a long life free and secure, so that a mother might raise her family in a province of peace and freedom.

This is the truth we owe our dead. This is the peace Veterans Affairs Canada owes their families.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos): Further debate?

Ms. Laura Smith: I rise today to support this motion and, more importantly, to extend my deepest sympathies to the families affected by the number of errors that were made in respect to the Highway of Heroes Tree Campaign’s Presence in Absence memorial sculptures.

The campaign, led by Veterans Affairs Canada, set out to honour the veterans who paid the ultimate sacrifice, but in doing so, errors were made. I appreciate the intent of the memorial and I know the intent was good, but, unfortunately, these mistakes add so much pain for some of our veterans and their families.

You see, I’m heartbroken not as an MPP, but more so as a Canadian. The families and the friends of our fallen veterans must know that their loved ones were not forgotten, and their service will be forever appreciated. Coming from a family with deep roots in military service, I’ve seen first-hand the incredible sacrifices that our veterans have made, and I grew to understand a very strong sense of duty and respect for those who serve.

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My father—it’s a fun story—joined the air force when he was probably under the age, after his family home was bombed in in London during WWII. He enlisted very young, and he went on to serve as the clean-up crew for WWII and bore witness to the concentration camps.

The value of service over self that my father embodied has been passed through my generation to the next. My grandfather served in the Great War, and later in life he settled in High Park. He actually found the love of his life in England and brought her home as a war bride.

My uncle was a tank man and a Sherbrooke fusilier who had actually been through so many battles, including D-Day, and because of that, he lived through life with scars of shrapnel in his back. I had the privilege of engaging with Veterans Affairs Canada on many occasions, dealing specifically with his care, and I believe they’re a decent organization with the best of intentions.

I’m in full gratitude of the tremendous sacrifices that these soldiers have made to our country. They deserve to be honoured with the utmost accuracy and respect. Some 158 members of the Canadian Armed Forces made the ultimate sacrifice in support of the mission in Afghanistan, but only 67 were honoured, and 16 veterans who died were not honoured. One such veteran, Corporal Bulger, was killed in action on July 3, 2009, and he was not honoured on this plaque. Of the 67 recognized on this plaque, 12 are still living, and four were mistakenly listed; they never served with the Canadian Armed Forces.

Madam Speaker, this is a grave dishonour to the memory of those who served and sacrificed for our country and a disservice to the families, friends and communities who continue to honour their legacy. Therefore, I am in complete support of this motion brought forward by the member from Peterborough–Kawartha because all of our heroes deserve all of our support.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos): Further debate? Further debate?

The member has two minutes to reply.

Mr. Dave Smith: First, I’d like to thank the members from St. Catharines, Kanata–Carleton, Brantford–Brant, Whitby and Thornhill.

I received a letter from the Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping. That’s the United Nations peacekeeping association for Canada.

“Our organization is asking that the Minister of Veterans Affairs make a public apology to all of those affected by this incident in the House of Commons. It’s our position that such an apology is overdue and would bring closure to those affected.” That’s one of the paragraphs from it.

When it comes down to it, it’s not about who made the mistake. I’m not trying to lay blame on anyone. But I know that when veterans are coming to me and saying, “Can we get Veterans Affairs Canada, the organization that oversees veterans and their affairs in this country, to stand up and say, ‘A mistake was made’?”, they don’t have to say who made the mistake. Simply say, “A mistake has been made, and we apologize to those families who paid the ultimate sacrifice. We apologize that someone made a mistake. We want you to know we remember you. We value you. Your service and sacrifice meant something, and we stand behind veterans.”

We’re not looking for someone to take blame. We’re not looking to point a finger at anyone. What we want is for those veterans to be made as whole as we can make them. And simply saying to those families who lost loved ones, “We’re sorry. We remember your loved one,” is not inappropriate.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos): The time provided for private members’ public business has expired.

Mr. Smith, Peterborough–Kawartha, has moved private member’s notice of motion number 15. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion will please say “aye.”

All those opposed to the motion will please say “nay.”

In my opinion, the nays have it.

A recorded vote being required, it will be deferred until the next instance of deferred votes.

Vote deferred.

The Deputy Speaker (Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos): All matters relating to private members’ public business having been completed, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, October 30, at 9 a.m.

The House adjourned at 1846.