Report continued from volume A.

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Private Members’ Public Business

Remembrance Day Observance Act, 2025 / Loi de 2025 sur l’observation du jour du Souvenir

Mrs. Stevens moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 65, An Act to amend the Remembrance Day and Veterans’ Week Act, 2024 with respect to schools and workplaces / Projet de loi 65, Loi modifiant la Loi de 2024 sur la Semaine du jour du Souvenir et des anciens combattants au sujet des écoles et des lieux de travail.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Pursuant to standing order 100, the member has 12 minutes for their presentation.

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: It’s always a pleasure to be able to rise in this House to represent the residents of St. Catharines and speak to my private member’s bill, the Remembrance Day Observance Act, 2025.

Before I begin, I want to make something absolutely clear, not just for the record, but for every person listening inside this House and outside of this chamber: This bill does not create a holiday. It is not a day off and it’s not a vacation. This bill creates a legislated pause—four hours—to ensure that all Ontarians, especially working veterans and their families, have the ability to honour the two minutes that matter the most.

This bill is non-partisan. It does not belong to any political party. It is simply an effort to ensure that residents in the province of Ontario can participate in the most sacred act of remembrance.

Speaker, I feel deeply honoured to serve as the shadow minister of veterans, Legions and military affairs, a role that I have held since 2018. And I say this sincerely: I hope to continue serving in this role until my very last day as a member in this House.

I do not speak about these issues from a distance. For me, this work is profoundly personal. My son, Jonathan, as I’ve said in this House, serves as a petty officer first class in the Royal Canadian Navy. He is stationed in Halifax with my incredible daughter-in-law, Sarah, and my two beautiful granddaughters, Josephine and Hazel Mae.

Every time I see my son in uniform, every time I think about what he has given and continues to give, I am reminded that Remembrance Day is not abstract policy conversation. Veterans’ issues are not theatrical. They are lived reality. They are family reality. I am a mother of an active service member. I’m a mother of a modern-day veteran and that is what motivates every word in this legislation.

This past November 11, as we all do, we returned to our ridings and joined our local ceremonies. I had the privilege to attend the downtown St. Catharines ceremony hosted by our local Branch 24, and then off to the Merritton ceremony at Branch 138, where I am a proud associate member. As always, the ceremonies were most beautiful, dignified, thought out and thoughtful, and incredibly well organized by volunteers, Legion members and community leaders.

But I noticed something different this year: The crowds were smaller, really noticeably smaller. Legion members pulled me aside, some of them long-serving branch members, presidents of the branch, and said, “Turnout is pretty low this year.” A constituent turned to me and said, “There’s no one here. What is going on?”

Speaker, we know what’s going on. People are working more hours for less pay. People cannot afford to lose wages, and many veterans who now work in civilian jobs are forced to choose between standing at a cenotaph or protecting their paycheque and their family food on the table.

Imagine, Speaker, being a veteran. You take out your uniform once a year. You put your medals on your chest, the medals that tell the story of true sacrifice. And you turn around and you realize the crowds are starting to thin, not because people don’t care, but because they cannot afford to be there. That’s the reality. It’s really heartbreaking, and it’s wrong. And it’s something we have the power to change.

A few weeks ago, when I introduced this bill, two extraordinary people joined me here at Queen’s Park: Joanne and Dennis Duquette. Dennis served proudly for 30 years, retiring as a sergeant major. Joanne has served the Royal Canadian Air Force for 26 years. Together with their beautiful daughter Lillian, they endured deployments, relocations and sacrifices that most Canadians only can read about. When I asked them what this bill meant to them, they didn’t talk about politics; they talked about honour. They talked about standing at a cenotaph in St. Catharines every November 11. They talked about reflection, remembrance and the importance of being present to honour those who never made it home.

But they also talked about reality. Despite Dennis’s three decades of service, he relies on a civilian job and he does not always have the ability to participate on November 11. This is exactly why this bill requires non-essential workplaces to pause operations from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m.—not to create a holiday, not to hand out a day off, but to give veterans like Dennis and Joanne and thousands of others the ability to stand in remembrance without losing pay, without begging for permission and without being forced to choose between dignity and a paycheque.

Dennis stood in the trenches with men who never got a chance to stand again. He watched comrades make the ultimate sacrifice. All he asks for is two minutes—two minutes to remember the faces that were beside him in the trenches, two minutes to honour those who did not return and two minutes without a financial penalty. He earned those two minutes, Speaker. The fallen deserve those two minutes.

If I may, I want to share something very deeply personal to me. This past Remembrance Day, I had the profound honour of spending it with Warrant Officer Dennis Brown’s two children, his boys, who honoured him as their dad and who carry his legacy with a strength that is impossible to put into words. Dennis was my childhood friend, someone I grew up with, someone whose laughter, whose kindness, whose friendship is still vivid for me to this day. Dennis gave the ultimate sacrifice for this country.

I stood with his best friends, Matt Harris and Steve Ward, and with so many others who served with Dennis, men who carried memories that most of us cannot begin to imagine. When you stand with those who served beside someone who never came home, when the Last Post plays and the silence settles heavy with grief and pride, you understand in your bones that Remembrance Day is sacred and you understand why those two minutes must be protected—not in theory, not in speeches, but in law. This is not a holiday, Speaker. This is an obligation. This is a responsibility. This is a collective act of honouring the fallen, the wounded, the serving and the families who bear weight of sacrifice every single day.

Speaker, I want to return to the issue of students. When I consulted with the Ontario Command of the Royal Canadian Legion, the message was very clear. It was crystal clear. It was unanimous: keep the schools open; keep the schools together; keep the children together; ensure they stand collectively for two minutes of silence. They must learn what sacrifice looks like. They must understand the roles of Legions, the meaning of military service, the importance of remembering both the triumphs and the painful chapters of our history.

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This bill strengthens and expands Remembrance Day curriculum in elementary and secondary schools. It makes it mandatory because Remembrance Day cannot depend on goodwill alone. It requires structure, clarity and commitment.

Many teachers, Speaker, I know do a remarkable job. They do. But we need consistency. We need depth. We need curriculum that brings our history alive—Indigenous veterans, the World Wars, the Afghanistan mission, modern deployments, and the stories behind the Legion’s incredible literary and poster contests.

We cannot allow Remembrance Day to become a routine. We cannot allow it to become something we squeeze in between meetings. We cannot allow younger generations to simply go through the motions.

The Remembrance Day Observance Act is about honour—nothing more and nothing less. It respects veterans. It respects working families. It respects veterans’ families. It respects the heritage of the Legions who fought for decades to ensure this day is properly recognized. And, most importantly, it ensures that every Ontarian—every single one—has the opportunity to stand in remembrance: at a cenotaph, in a workplace, in a school gymnasium or wherever their communities gather.

Our veterans stood for us. Some never returned home—like my dear friend Warrant Officer Dennis Brown. Some returned with visible wounds, and others returned with wounds that will last a lifetime. The very least we can do—the absolute least—is stand for them, for two minutes, and ensure they have the time to stand with us.

This bill does not create a holiday; this bill restores dignity. It rebuilds communities. It honours sacrifice.

I look forward to continuing this debate on this very important legislation. I am also looking forward for Ontario to be able to have the chance to join with the rest of Canada. I want it to be known that we are one of three provinces that does not recognize Remembrance Day for our veterans.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Further debate?

Mrs. Karen McCrimmon: I must begin by thanking the member for St. Catharines. Veterans are in our heart. Service members are in our heart. She continually looks after the needs of veterans and service members because they matter to her: real compassion, real love, real wanting to make the difference in somebody’s life. I will forever be grateful.

This act amends the Remembrance Day and Veterans’ Week Act, and it provides that every school shall hold a dedicated service for Remembrance Day. It also requires the Ministry of Education to develop both an elementary and secondary school curriculum regarding the importance of Remembrance Day. Additionally, the bill proposes that no workplace shall operate between 9 a.m. and 1 p.m. on Remembrance Day.

Speaker, make no mistake about it, observing Remembrance Day is important for so many meaningful reasons: historical reasons, civic reasons, personal reasons.

Firstly, the least we can do is honouring those who served and sacrificed. It’s a moment for Canadians to honour the men and women who served—and in many cases, died—in military conflicts, peacekeeping missions and humanitarian operations around the world.

The act of pausing, reflecting, wearing a poppy ensures that those sacrifices are not forgotten. It also acknowledges the families and communities who were equally devastated by their loss.

Countries can lose important lessons when history fades from public awareness. Remembrance Day helps keep collective memory alive. Without remembrance, the stories, the struggles, the sacrifices made in past conflicts risk being lost.

The day also reinforces values such as democracy, freedom, responsibility and service to others. It invites Canadians to reflect on the principles that veterans fought to defend and on the responsibility each citizen carries today in upholding those principles. It supports veterans and active service members. It’s a signal to veterans and serving members that their contributions are recognized, appreciated, valued. Public recognition can support their well-being and foster a culture of respect and gratitude.

It also is not—it is more than a reminder of the human cost of war, and through ceremonies and moments of silence, people are encouraged to think critically about conflict, diplomacy and the importance of global peace. It also helps build a more knowledgeable and understanding public.

In 2004, Bill 139 extended the scope of the Remembrance Day Observance Act to require schools in Ontario to commemorate Remembrance Day by playing the Last Post, followed by two minutes of silence and no school activities at 11 o’clock.

In many provinces, Remembrance Day is a statutory holiday, and workers get holiday pay or the day off in many provinces.

So, where to go? I just want to share a few thoughts on each part of the proposal.

Requiring schools to hold live or interactive ceremonies reinforcing the educational value of Remembrance Day and ensuring that students meaningfully engage with its historical significance is so important: It’s important that our youth understand the sacrifices that were made by previous generations on their behalf.

Let the students in my own riding of Kanata–Carleton learn about Dr. Roly Armitage—he was one of my heroes—that World War II veteran who died last year at 99 years old. During World War II, he served with the Royal Canadian Artillery and took part in D-Day. While serving in Holland after D-Day, he rescued children who were freezing to death in a ditch. Go read about it. It’s an amazing story. What’s fascinating is that Roly actually had the chance to meet one of these children 80 years later. And it’s so important that all Canadian veterans share these kinds of stories so people understand.

Let the students learn about today’s members of the Canadian Forces, the men and women who leave their families for weeks and months at a time to do:

—Arctic sovereignty patrols;

—airspace and maritime protection;

—deterring aggression around the world;

—participating in peace support operations;

—contributing to counterterrorism;

—providing aid after earthquakes, hurricanes, flood;

—evacuations and emergency logistics;

—delivering supplies, medical aid and engineering support;

—wildfires and floods;

—search and rescue;

—public health emergencies;

—helping to train local security forces; and

—helping to stabilize fragile regions.

The members of the Canadian Forces do so much good here at home and right around the world and the children in school need to learn about this. They need to understand the work that is being done on their behalf.

Speaker, mandating the Ministry of Education to develop curriculum content on both historical and modern conflicts aligns with the broader goals of teaching our youth about real-life heroes.

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I do share the fears of the Royal Canadian Legion that Remembrance Day should not be turned into an excuse for an extra day. It must remain a day of reflection, remembrance and gratitude across all communities. Honouring the courage and sacrifice of Canadian veterans is a responsibility that must be upheld through meaningful reflection, education and public participation. Strengthening how Ontario observes Remembrance Day, particularly in schools, helps ensure future generations understand the cost of war and the value of peace.

Educational observance is one of the most powerful ways to preserve the legacy of veterans. Ensuring schools hold live participatory ceremonies reinforces the purpose and solemnity of the day. Mandating curriculum content on Remembrance Day and Canada’s military history ensures that remembrance is not purely limited to one day, but that it is built into year-round civic education.

While it has been suggested that workplace closures may encourage a broader public participation, unfortunately, the Royal Canadian Legion disagrees. I believe that the Royal Canadian Legion is the keeper of the remembrance flame.

I just wanted to say to the member for St. Catharines that I know you care. I know the work that you do for veterans and service members. I know your work is selfless and full of gratitude, compassion and caring, because they matter to you, and I am grateful. I know that the work that you do is full of gratitude, respect and the wish to honour veterans and the members of the Canadian Forces who today keep us safe. I want to honour that gratitude. I want to honour the work that you do for veterans and service members, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Further debate?

Mrs. Daisy Wai: Good evening, everyone. I thank the member for introducing Bill 65, An Act to amend the Remembrance Day and Veterans’ Week Act, 2024 with respect to schools and workplaces.

First off, I would like to take a moment to recognize the brave men and women who have and continue to fight for our freedom. Active members and veterans play an important role in safeguarding not only our nation’s past but also the security and freedoms of our future generations.

Many of us in this House have loved ones who have served or are currently serving, including the member opposite, who is the granddaughter of two Royal Canadian Air Force veterans and the mother of a son currently serving in the Royal Canadian Navy. I thank you for your support and can appreciate the work you have put forward honouring the Canadian Armed Forces.

In respect to Bill 65, I thank the opposition for engaging in the debate on this issue, but what the member is proposing will create significant confusion for both the education and the labour sectors. In the past, veterans’ associations have stated that they are not in favour of making Remembrance Day a statutory holiday and have instead emphasized the importance of meaningful reflection and remembrance.

While the member has not proceeded with amending Remembrance Day to make it a statutory holiday, the proposed changes would require all businesses across Ontario to close from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. each Remembrance Day going forward. If passed, the employees will not be entitled to rights or protections under Ontario’s Employment Standards Act, meaning they will not receive public holiday pay. This would have significant implications for businesses and municipalities, resulting in the loss of sales and revenues.

Speaker, if this bill is passed during these unprecedented economic times, it will not only hurt our workers, but cause confusion, disrupt commuters, harm businesses and the economy while leaving workers without public holiday pay.

With respect to schools and the member’s proposed actions, we recognize the importance of ensuring students receive learning and attend dedicated services for Remembrance Day. However, what the member opposite proposes already exists. If this bill were to pass, the proposed amendments would result in duplication as schools in Ontario are already required to hold or attend dedicated Remembrance Day ceremonies.

Again, I sincerely appreciate the member who has put forth this bill. However, as drafted, it will not serve the interests of Ontarians; in fact, if it were to pass, it would not provide any real benefits to the people it claims to support.

Last year, our government passed the Honouring Veterans Act, 2024, to honour the service and sacrifice of veterans. As part of the act, we renamed Remembrance Week to Remembrance Day and Veterans’ Week to better recognize those who served, as well as those who gave their lives.

In addition to this legislative change, we increased financial assistance through the Soldiers’ Aid Commission and free GO Transit access for veterans and active Canadian Armed Forces members.

This past May, we launched the Ontario Veterans Award for Community Service Excellence, recognizing the dedication and community service of our veterans. Our government is proud to invest in projects that serve thousands of workers and offer opportunities for veterans. Over the last year, our government invested $42 million in 27 projects through round 5 of the Skills Development Fund, offering opportunities for veterans.

Earlier this month, our government announced an investment of $575,000 to support prior learning assessment and recognition processes, allowing the valuable skills and experience of veterans to be recognized while helping them to complete their degrees, pay less tuition, join the workforce and earn with confidence.

Speaker, this is not a one-time effort; it is an ongoing commitment. We will ensure that those who have served our country are empowered to succeed. Thank you.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Further debate?

Mr. Tom Rakocevic: I’m proud to stand in support of the Remembrance Day Observance Act, 2025. I want to thank the member from St. Catharines. I also want to acknowledge and thank her son for serving the country. I also want to acknowledge the member from Kanata–Carleton for speaking on this bill and for serving our country.

There are over 120,000 names in the book of remembrance here in Canada—people who lost their lives fighting for our country. There are almost half a million veterans in Canada, and there are almost 100,000 serving men and women in Canada. They deserve our respect.

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Ontario is only one of three provinces that does not actually view Remembrance Day as a stat holiday. We are only one of three, and the bill that we are tabling is only asking for a pause. The question has been asked of the public—polls have been put out there—and almost 37% of Canadians want to attend a Remembrance Day ceremony; in fact, intend to do so. But why not make it easier for them? Why not make it such that they are not penalized for taking the time off to recognize serving men and women and to remember the sacrifices made by veterans and those who have fallen?

But this government, based on what they have said, are not willing to do this. It’s very, very disappointing. There is a poll that goes so far as to say that 87% of Canadians believe more should be done to educate young people about our military history, so all that we’ve heard about the government claiming to have done things with regard to education on this important topic is obviously not working. That’s almost 100% of people saying much more needs to be done. And this bill would mandate—not suggest, not recommend—that Remembrance Day be dedicated to what it is intended to be dedicated to. But mandate—equip the teachers, equip the schools with the knowledge; change the curriculum to make this a priority. It is absolutely the least we could be doing.

So many have died for the freedom we enjoy here in this country today. We must do better for our youth. Every year the Emery Village BIA in my community hosts a Remembrance Day event at the base of the Joseph Bannon statue in Joseph Bannon Park—a remarkable serviceman from World War II. And students come out every year to hear about Remembrance Day. It was an honour to attend every year, and it’s so inspiring to see those students.

This government should do better. We must respect our veterans. Thank you.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Further debate?

MPP Mohamed Firin: I want to thank the members who brought forward this bill. I would like to personally thank the member from St. Catharines—I know her son has served, and I want to thank her and her family for their service. I would also like to thank the member from Kanata–Carleton for her service as well.

Speaker, Remembrance Day is an important time for all Ontarians to honour the brave men and women who have served and continue to serve our country. Our government is deeply grateful for their courage, sacrifice and dedication. However, we cannot support this bill as drafted. The intent is meaningful, but the practical implications are significant.

The bill does not amend the Employment Standards Act, ESA, to make Remembrance Day a public holiday. Workplaces would be required to close from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m., yet employees would not be entitled to public holiday pay or ESA protections for that period. This could result in thousands of workers losing half a day’s wage, especially those paid hourly.

This bill does not clarify how schools and also workplaces would operate during the required shutdown. Essential workplaces such as hospitals, long-term-care homes and first responders cannot simply close for four hours. Without ESA amendments, the bill risks conflicts with collective agreements, potential grievances and disruption to future collective bargaining.

Speaker, past consultations saw no consensus on making Remembrance Day a statutory holiday. Labour groups would likely oppose the bill because of the four unpaid hours and unclear applications of protections. Employer groups would raise concerns about the productivity losses and operational impacts, especially during economic uncertainty.

Many veterans strongly support the tradition of a collective two minutes of silence at 11 a.m., which workplaces across Ontario already observe. This allows meaningful commemoration without unintended harms to workers or business operations.

Speaker, we all share the same commitment to honouring our veterans with dignity and respect, but legislation must be clear, workable and fair. For these reasons, our government cannot support Bill 65 in its current form.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Further debate?

Mr. Billy Pang: I appreciate the opportunity and time allotted to me to speak to Bill 65, the Remembrance Day Observance Act.

Every year, Ontarians take the opportunity to honour and remember those who served through our nation’s history and the many who made the ultimate sacrifice. On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, Canadians pause in a moment of silence to honour and remember the brave men and women who have served and continue to serve Canada during times of war, conflict and peace.

It is in this spirit that I want to acknowledge the intent behind Bill 65. The opposition is right to emphasize the importance of Remembrance Day in our schools and communities. On this point, I agree.

However, while we share the sentiment, we cannot support the bill as written. Ontario already requires all schools, through regulations, to hold or attend a Remembrance Day ceremony. Every student participates in a meaningful observance, ensuring the history and purpose of this solemn day are recognized and honoured.

Just last week, our government strengthened this commitment even further. As the minister announced on Friday, we are developing new high-quality learning resources that will ensure every student across the province receives a consistent and deeper education on the significance of Remembrance Day. These resources will support teachers and help students understand not only our nation’s historic conflicts, but also the modern missions in which Canadians have served.

Beginning November 11, 2026, all classrooms will have access to strengthened materials that better reflect the extraordinary courage and sacrifice of the men and women of the Canadian Forces.

Speaker, Remembrance Day is one of the most important days on our calendar. It is our responsibility to ensure future generations understand its meaning. We must continue teaching students about the sacrifices made by those who helped build the safe and free country we call home today.

This year, I had the honour of spending Remembrance Day in Markham–Unionville with our veterans, their families and local residents. I joined a ceremony at Unionville Cenotaph, where we stood together in silence to reflect on the sacrifice made by so many. It was a moving reminder that behind every name we honoured is a life of courage, service and commitment to our country.

We’ll continue to honour our veterans, not only on November 11 but every day, through actions that preserve the legacy of generations to come.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Further debate?

Ms. Teresa J. Armstrong: Today I rise in strong support of the Remembrance Day Observance Act, 2025. This bill responds to a concern I hear, time and time again, from veterans, families and local Legion members who I meet regularly in my community. These are men and women who have worn the uniform, who have seen the cost of war up close and who continue to serve their neighbours long after their military service has ended. Increasingly, they tell me they worry that the meaning of Remembrance Day is being diluted, and the significance of November 11 is fading into the background of our busy lives.

Speaker, I share that concern. Remembrance Day is not simply a tradition; it is a duty. It is our collective promise to honour those who defended our freedoms—Canada’s freedoms—and to ensure that their sacrifices are never forgotten. But that promise is not fulfilled with symbolism alone. It must be taught, practised and passed on.

That’s why this bill matters. It strengthens the foundation of remembrance where it’s most needed: with young people. By requiring every school in Ontario to hold a dedicated in-person Remembrance Day service, we give students the chance to reflect, to gather and to participate, whether it’s through assemblies, guest speakers, cenotaph visits or music tributes. By mandating a curriculum that covers both historic and modern conflicts, we ensure that students understand the experiences of all veterans whose stories must be recognized.

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This bill also creates a meaningful moment of province-wide reflection by pausing workplace operations from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. on November 11. This is a practical step that gives working Ontarians the opportunity to attend local ceremonies and stand with their communities in remembrance, much like the model already used in Manitoba.

Speaker, I found on a website—it’s qormuseum.org, and I want to quote: “While remembering the fallen, we should also remember those who came home scarred both physically and mentally. Lives shortened by gas. Amputees. Shell-shock and PTSD. Influenza. Those using alcohol ... trying to forget the horrors of WWI, Indigenous soldiers who answered their country’s call but still unable to vote when they returned. And of course, those who found a way to move on with their lives, raise families, and drink a quiet toast each year to fallen comrades.

“At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, we will remember them.”

I hope every member in this Legislature will stand with veterans and support this wonderful legislation from the member from St. Catharines. Thank you to her.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Further debate?

Mr. Chris Glover: I am proud to stand and support my colleague the MPP for St. Catharines’s bill to mandate the Ministry of Education create materials about Remembrance Day to be distributed to every school and that Remembrance Day morning be declared a holiday so veterans and civilians can attend Remembrance Day ceremonies without financial penalty.

It’s not too often in this House that we get to give thanks to the people who actually serve in our Armed Forces, so I want to take a moment in my speech just to thank the member from Kanata–Carleton. I want to thank Jonathan Lindal, petty officer first class, who has been serving for 21 years and is the son of my colleague from St. Catharines. I want to thank, from my own riding, Commander Paul Smith and Chief Petty Officer Second Class Andrew Payton from the HMCS York, and the HMCS York Band, who were here at the Legislature last week.

I want to thank my executive assistant’s father, Master Corporal Iain Hamilton, who served 40 years in our Armed Forces; veteran Brian Budden, who served 25 years in the Canadian air force; Padre John Howie, regimental padre of Queen’s Own Rifles, who served 35 years in the Canadian air force; and one of the newest members of the service: On the weekend I ran into a family I know from Etobicoke. Their son Gabriel Chudhoba has just signed up with the Canadian air force, and his older brother Chris has been serving the Armed Forces for nine years as a corporal with the 32 Brigade Group, Governor General’s Horse Guards. To all of these members of the Armed Forces, thank you for your service and thank you for the contribution that you are making to Canada.

Let’s see. I’m looking at the time.

My mother was born in 1936, so she was born between the wars, in Uxbridge, Ontario. She told me some stories about her upbringing. One of the stories was that there was a World War I veteran in the town and he had been gassed. She would see him sometimes on the street corner, and he would be coughing uncontrollably. It was the results of that gassing.

She also told me that, when she was in grade 2, some men came into her class to take one of the boys out, and they were taking him out because his father had just been killed. She said that when you think about the sacrifices, when you’ve actually witnessed the sacrifices that people have made so that we can live in a free and democratic society, it would be unconscionable not to vote in an election and not to stand up for our democratic rights whenever they are infringed. Whether from threats from the south of the border or from legislation in this chamber here, we need to constantly be on guard in order to respect the sacrifices that Armed Forces men and women have made for over 100 years to protect our freedom and our democracy here, and we need to do that all the time.

So, I’m proud to support my colleague’s bill, and I hope the rest of the members will stand up and support this bill as well.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Further debate?

Mr. Terence Kernaghan: I rise today to speak in support of Bill 65, the Remembrance Day Observance Act, 2025. This bill is more than just about marking a day on the calendar. It’s about honouring our history and recognizing the sacrifices of those who served in our Armed Forces. Veterans gave so much so that we could enjoy the freedoms and rights we hold dear today. Their courage and dedication deserve not only our respect but also our understanding.

Bill 65 ensures that every school observes Remembrance Day and teaches students about the significance of this important day. It also requires that students not only learn about history in the classroom, but also have the opportunity to attend ceremonies, meet veterans in person and reflect on the sacrifices that were made. This bill ensures that the lessons of history are not just words on a page, but experiences students can see, feel and understand.

In my riding of London North Centre, Remembrance Day ceremonies are like no other. Despite their advanced age, many of our local veterans are bused from the Parkwood Institute to attend these ceremonies. Seeing them arrive in buses, knowing the sacrifices they made and the challenges they faced just to be present, is profoundly moving. Their commitment serves as a living lesson of courage, dedication and patriotism.

By attending these ceremonies, students have the chance to learn first-hand about the lives of veterans and the realities of service. They see the human side of history. They hear the stories of those who defended our country and gain a deeper understanding of the freedoms and responsibilities that come with citizenship. This is exactly what Bill 65 aims to achieve: connecting students to history in a meaningful way that inspires respect, gratitude and reflection.

Bill 65 also sets standards to ensure Remembrance Day is observed in a meaningful and consistent manner across Ontario schools. It prevents the day from being overlooked and ensures that students across the province understand its significance, giving them the chance to honour veteran sacrifices and learn the lessons history must teach.

In closing, Bill 65 is about education, remembrance and respect. It ensures that every student has the opportunity to learn about, reflect upon and honour the sacrifices of our veterans. The dedication of our London veterans, travelling from the Parkwood Institute to participate despite their age, is a powerful example for our young people and an inspiration for us all. This bill not only preserves history but also instills values of gratitude and civic responsibility in the next generation.

I want to thank the MPP from St. Catharines for standing up for veterans and introducing this bill. I hope the government will pass this bill and not play politics with Remembrance Day, veterans and honour them.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Further debate?

The member has two minutes to reply.

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: Two minutes is not going to be long enough for me this evening. After what I’ve heard from the members across and from some of the members within this House, I want to first of all thank my colleagues for the support you are giving me here tonight.

As we conclude the debate on Remembrance Day Observance Act, I want to speak directly to why this bill matters so deeply. Is it really about the money? Is it really about being able to stand on a day that you have off? Through you, Speaker, is it really about that? No. This bill will not be a holiday as the Royal Canadian Legion has said. They didn’t even know Ontario was one of three provinces that didn’t have it as a stat holiday. That’s how far out of touch they are, and they come back and say, “We don’t want it as a holiday”? It’s not a holiday; it’s an act of remembrance. It’s an act. It’s something that we, as legislators, should absolutely show an obligation to people that have not made it home, have fallen for our freedom, our democracy.

It’s terrible that you are throwing those veterans under something that they cannot get out of. That is political nonsense. Speaker, through you, there are people that have served in the First World War, the Second World War, the Korean War, the Gulf War, Afghanistan. They are all peacekeepers, and these veterans deserve respect from this Ontario government. If the Ontario Legion doesn’t want it as a holiday, well then, maybe they should have known we were one of three provinces that did not recognize our veterans on November 11.

Speaker, every November 11—

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): The time provided for private members’ public business has expired.

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MPP Stevens has moved second reading of Bill 65, An Act to amend the Remembrance Day and Veterans’ Week Act, 2024 with respect to schools and workplaces.

Is it the pleasure of the House that this motion carry? I heard a no.

All those in favour of the motion will please say “aye.”

All those opposed to the motion will please say “nay.”

In my opinion, the nays have it.

A recorded vote being required, it will be deferred until the next instance of deferred votes.

Second reading vote deferred.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): Pursuant to standing order 36, the question that this House do now adjourn is deemed to have been made.

Adjournment Debate

Government accountability

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): The member for Ottawa South has given notice of dissatisfaction with the answer to a question given by the Minister of Labour, Immigration, Training and Skills Development. The member has five minutes to debate the matter, and the minister or parliamentary assistant may reply for up to five minutes.

I recognize the member for Ottawa South.

Mr. John Fraser: I want to thank you, Speaker, the Clerks, everybody else who has got to hang around. I’ve got another late show after this one. There’s one in between, so you have a bit of a break from me. But I appreciate everybody being here, especially people who will be responding to me.

I know my colleague is leaving, but I know he has something really, really important to go to, so I forgive him.

The Skills Development Fund—

Mr. Dave Smith: Can I leave too?

Mr. John Fraser: Yes, you can leave too, if you like. You’re welcome to leave. There’s no voting going on now.

I think I’ve asked 100 questions. I think this is, like, the 100th question—I’ll have to go back and double-check—on skills development. I can’t ever remember being dissatisfied literally 100 times. That’s incredible. I mean, that has got to be a record of some sort. Probably we’ve asked 200 questions, but not everybody expresses dissatisfaction the way that I do.

So the Auditor General, who’s very, very good and moderate in her language, said this Skills Development Fund was not fair, was not transparent, was not accountable, and that there was an appearance of preferential treatment. And that appearance of preferential treatment was because low-scoring projects got funds over high-scoring projects, because the minister decided to override that.

And of course, we have the famous case of Keel Digital Solutions, where the minister overrode the public servants’ advice and gave it to Keel Digital Solutions. The only problem is he had a conflict—that his close personal friend, a night-in-Paris friend at his wedding, Michael Rudderham, was a lobbyist for that company, and he had also spent some time at a Leafs game with the director of that company, and he didn’t declare conflict and have another minister make a decision. That’s clearly wrong—clearly wrong.

Then another piece of information came out and that was that the low-scoring projects got most of the money. So the lower you scored, the more you got. And it’s not golf, folks, right? It’s not golf. It doesn’t work that way in the real world, which said to me, there must be another set of books. There must be some other scoring on which the minister bases their decisions on.

And I’m not going to go into that right now, because you’ve already heard me say a few things about that and you’ll probably hear some more. The thing I want to talk about is, Keel Digital Solutions continues to get millions and millions and millions of dollars from this government, from different ministries while they were under a forensic audit.

Now, the auditing function inside government is the responsibility of the minister for the Treasury Board.

I just realized I’m debating the wrong subject. This is my second subject, right? That’s correct. Anyway, I will finish and do that in my other one.

But here’s the thing: Audit is an internal function.

I’m tired, guys. I’ve got two late shows.

Audit is an internal function of the Treasury Board and the President of the Treasury Board is responsible for that. And so there’s a process: You get an audit; Treasury Board does it; it gets flagged for a forensic audit. Now, there’s a gap between when that happens, but when that forensic audit is initiated, when you’re saying you need that, there should be a red flag that goes up. There is a red flag that goes up that says, “We better tell Cabinet Office. We better tell the Ministry of Finance. We better tell the ministries that are involved in this that we don’t trust what this organization is telling us. They’re hiding something. We have to do a forensic audit. Either pause your funding or don’t do any more.” That’s what should happen. That’s what’s supposed to happen. That’s public service; that’s not politicians.

I simply asked a question that said, “Tell us what happened when. Just tell us when you started the audit—when it became evident there was a forensic audit, when you started the forensic audit and when you ended it.” Because the question I have is, why? Why did they continue to get millions and millions of dollars while we were saying we don’t trust what they’re telling us? If you were in business and you had a supplier that you didn’t trust, you’d stop buying from them. If you said, “We think they’re overcharging us,” you wouldn’t be buying more stock.

I know my colleague from the Bay of Quinte is a business owner. He wouldn’t do business with somebody like that. He had a bike shop, right? Thank you, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): I recognize the member from Peterborough.

Mr. Dave Smith: Thanks, Speaker. I appreciate that.

My esteemed colleague from across—I think he got his dissatisfaction questions mixed up, because it was the Minister of Finance that answered his question for him, not the President of the Treasury Board.

When we look at what this is all about, it really comes back to everything that we have been trying to do here in the province. We’ve been investing in workers. We have been doing things to protect jobs. The Skills Development Fund does just that: It invests in workers, and it gives those workers an opportunity to do things, to create things and to strengthen the economy. In fact, we’ve created more than a million jobs in the last seven years as a result of the work that we’ve been doing, 55,000 of them this past September alone.

Now, we’ve heard stories about how the opposition thinks that our economy is in the tank, but that’s not the case, because we’ve seen our GDP rise from about $800 billion to $1.2 trillion now. That’s a result of the work that is being done, in part through the Skills Development Fund, by making sure that we have a workforce that is out there doing things that the people of Ontario need.

We’ve trained more than 700,000 workers as a result of this, and we’re doing things that are making a difference in the daily lives of the people who have elected us to do things for them. They’ve elected us to be that steady hand on the rudder in uncertain times.

We’ve seen what’s happened as a result of Trump’s tariffs. We’ve seen the global change in the economy—not just in Ontario, not just in Canada, but the entire world. Businesses need predictable and stable environments in order to succeed, and what we have been doing has been trying to provide as much stability as possible. We know that there’s going to be some unpredictability as a result of what is happening in the United States and what’s happening with tariffs, but we have been moving forward, making sure that we’re doing the things that we need to do to keep this economy going.

Case in point: When you’re driving on the 401 and you’re heading between Oshawa and Bowmanville and you look to the south, and you see that giant pile of dirt that’s being built up there, that’s because we’re putting in SMRs, small modular reactors. We’re increasing the nuclear fleet. We know that when we do this, we need additional skilled tradespeople. We need people with very specific skills to make this happen. Some 18,000 jobs are being created just on the construction side of that alone, and that is all a result of the investment that this government is making in the workers in Ontario.

We’ve been able to cut nearly $12 billion in taxes and fees, not just to individuals but to businesses as well. How have we been able to do that? Because we have raised the economy. Our GDP, as I said, is now $1.2 trillion. We’ve done all of this without increasing a tax. We’ve done it by building up the economy, by giving resources to businesses to make them stronger, by giving resources to workers so that they can go out and have those higher-paying jobs, to do the things that we need to do here in Ontario to build up that economy. And as it rises, so too do the fortunes of every single person in this province. If you do not have a strong economy, you don’t have the money to look after the social safety network that we have. By building the economy the way we have, by investing in workers the way that we have, we have been showing that Ontario is that stable environment for business.

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Our entire goal has been to make Ontario the number one place to invest in the entire G7, and we’re seeing those results. Just something as simple as the WSIB: $4 billion in WSIB rebates have been helping small businesses. We have the financial ability to do this because we’ve been focusing on building the economy. We’ve been focusing on ensuring that our workforce is well trained and our workforce is able to do the things we need to keep this province moving in that direction that it needs to move.

Our entire focus is on protecting Ontario. It’s on protecting businesses, protecting workers and protecting individuals.

Government accountability

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): The member for Don Valley West has given notice of dissatisfaction with the answer to a question given by the Minister of Finance. The member has up to five minutes to debate the matter, and the minister or the parliamentary assistant may reply for five minutes.

I recognize the member from Don Valley West.

Ms. Stephanie Bowman: Thank you, Speaker. As you said, I’m rising today to express my dissatisfaction with the answer I got from the Minister of Finance about one of the Premier’s favourite programs, the Skills Development Fund.

My questions were very straightforward. I asked for his views on why the Auditor General’s report that said this PC government’s process to hand out hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars through the Skills Development Fund was not fair, not transparent and not accountable. Given that the Auditor General said that the process can create an appearance of real or potential preferential treatment by the minister’s office in its selection of applicants, I also asked the Minister of Finance why he hasn’t demanded that the Minister of Labour be fired?

Speaker, his response was very telling. The Minister of Finance did not even utter the words “Skills Development Fund” once in his response. He didn’t mention the Minister of Labour once. Clearly, he didn’t want to share his views on the Skills Development Fund because the answer would be too harmful to him and his government.

The Minister of Finance references the auditor’s work when it suits him, but he’s staying far away from her findings on the Skills Development Fund. When the Auditor General calls a program with over $1 billion in funding not fair, not transparent and not accountable, I would expect the Minister of Finance to act, not deflect.

When the Auditor General says explanations provided by the minister’s office for why lower-scoring applications were inaccurate or did not address the risks raised by members of the public service—and that’s a quote, Speaker—I would expect the Minister of Finance to say, “We’re not going to tolerate this kind mismanagement of taxpayer money. I won’t tolerate it.” I would expect him to say, “There won’t be any more funding for the Skills Development Fund until this mess is cleared up.”

Instead, we have this whole government and the whole cabinet standing by this program, standing by the Minister of Labour. It’s quite frankly shocking and very disappointing from the Minister of Finance, who likes to suggest that his government is transparent. Well, the Auditor General just told them they are not transparent.

Speaker, we have a Minister of Labour who gives out hundreds of millions of dollars to applicants that failed the equivalent of a loan application, and then he denied applications who passed that loan application with flying colours. In the Minister of Finance’s previous life, he would have fired an employee who did that.

The Minister of Finance has an obligation to the taxpayers of Ontario. He needs to act, not deflect, and that’s what the minister did in response to my questions on the Skills Development Fund: He deflected. He chose to talk instead about nominal GDP, which is GDP not adjusted for inflation, which was also a deflection. He can only talk about nominal GDP, by the way, because real GDP growth under this government—that’s the one that matters—is only 2%. Under the Liberal government, it was 2.6%. He won’t talk about real GDP growth because that would show that his government is failing our economy, it is failing the 700,000 workers who are unemployed and that, under this government, we’re seeing record-high employment. But I digress, Speaker.

The Minister of Finance didn’t answer the question of what he thinks about the Auditor General’s findings on the Skills Development Fund. He didn’t answer the question about why he hasn’t called for the Minister of Labour to be fired. Why? It’s because he can’t.

He can’t stand up and proudly defend the Skills Development Fund because giving taxpayer money to strip club owners is indefensible. He can’t defend his colleague the Minister of Labour because this minister gave millions of taxpayer dollars to his friend’s companies instead of to high-scoring applicants who really deserved it.

Speaker, when the Minister of Finance cannot stand in this House and defend why his government gave hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to companies, you know it’s because it’s actually indefensible.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): I recognize the member from York South–Weston.

MPP Mohamed Firin: Since its launch in 2021, Ontario’s Skills Development Fund has invested in more than 700 projects delivered by over 500 organizations, helping more than 700,000 people in Ontario get the training they need for better jobs with bigger paycheques.

And the results speak for themselves. More than 100,000 people found work within 60 days of completing their program and training. That’s real opportunity, and that’s real progress.

We are training the next generation of Ontario’s workforce. This fund is helping us build the workforce of Ontario, especially because Ontario needs to compete globally—training workers in critical sectors such as construction, manufacturing, health care, mining and more.

Through the Skills Development Fund, we have trained 154,000 construction workers; 124,000 manufacturing workers; 52,000 health care workers, including PSWs; and 35,000 workers in mining, quarrying, oil and gas.

Under Premier Ford’s leadership, this government has invested $1.5 billion in the Skills Development Fund since 2021. And we aren’t stopping there, Speaker. We will be investing an additional $1 billion over the next three years because we believe in workers, their potential and the power of training to change lives.

Speaker, I could quote statistics all day, but the true measure of success is found in the stories of people whose lives have been transformed by the SDF.

Waheed’s story is one of them. Waheed is a 22-year-old who enrolled in the Operating Engineers Training Institute of Ontario crane apprenticeship program. Thanks to the Skills Development Fund, he gained the confidence, training and in-demand skills to start a rewarding career in the trades.

Then there’s Noah, who left university during the pandemic and joined Ontario Shipyards. Through Support Ontario Youth, he registered as an industrial millwright and is now preparing for his exam.

That’s what this program delivers: better training for a better job with a bigger paycheque.

These are not just stats, Speaker; these are real stories. These are individuals whose lives were transformed by the Skills Development Fund.

This fund is helping everyone, from apprentices in Niagara to miners in northern Ontario. It’s supporting innovators like Quentin from Fanshawe College, who trained through their SDF-funded electric vehicle upskilling program. Through hands-on learning with advanced EV systems and diagnostic tools, Quentin gained the skills to thrive in Ontario’s fast-growing clean energy sector and is now mentoring the next generation of technicians.

These stories show the diversity of Ontario’s workforce and the strength that comes from supporting the next generation of workers.

The Skills Development Fund is also fuelling a surge in apprenticeship growth. Under the previous government, Ontario lost over 15,000 active apprentices between 2015 and 2018. But under this government, apprenticeship registrations have soared by 70% since COVID-19, with more than 100,000 active apprentices today and over 16,400 youth registered last year—the highest in a decade.

The Skills Development Fund is delivering real results. We’re investing in better training, better jobs and bigger paycheques—for veterans retraining for cyber security, for newcomers bridging their credentials, for people with disabilities entering the workforce and for young people discovering the trades. That’s how we protect Ontario’s future. That’s how we build a province where everyone has the chance to succeed. And that’s why we will never stop supporting our workers.

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Academic testing

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): The member for Ottawa South has given notice of dissatisfaction with the answer to a question given by the Minister of Education. The member has five minutes to debate the matter, and the minister or parliamentary assistant may reply for up to five minutes.

Mr. John Fraser: Who is that singer who sings I Ain’t Ever Satisfied? Do you know who I’m talking about? It’s a country rock guy—I can’t remember. Anyway, apparently, I wasn’t wrong that I was actually talking about SDF, the Skills Development Fund—for those at home—when I actually should have been talking about it. I just mixed up the order of the questions, or I thought I had.

But I’m here to talk about EQAO. The good news is—the really good news—the Minister of Education saw the light. He saw the light because literally the day after the questions were asked—and I wasn’t the only one; there were people over here asking questions too—he decided, after saying, “Oh, they’re just on my desk; I’ve got to study them. It’s not that important”—he realized that he didn’t know what EQAO results were for. They weren’t just for government to look at and say, “Are we doing okay? Are our schools good?” They were actually for educators to make sure that we had the right supports in schools for the kids that needed them, that we knew, for each child, what we needed to do to support that child.

Parents were expecting those results. My daughter was saying, “I haven’t got Fraser’s”—who’s my grandson. His last name is Starr; it’s not Fraser Fraser, by the way, because it’s my daughter. I know people think that when they hear that. So she didn’t get it, and she was like, “That’s unusual. It should have been there in September.”

I was talking to a supervisory officer in Brantford just at the end of September. He said, “We haven’t got those results, and we need them. What’s going on with the government?” And my point to the minister was—his response was, “Oh, yes, they’re on my desk.” It’s like—what? Do you not know what use these have, that they’re important to people—as imperfect as EQAO is?

But the minister has been kind of busy doing other things. He’s been saying, “You know, all the stuff that’s happened in education, all the inattentiveness of the government over almost eight years—I don’t want you to look at that. But look at those trustees over there that made a bad decision. It’s their fault. It’s somebody else’s fault.” He’s been really busy doing that, so he probably didn’t have the time to get a depth of understanding of what EQAO is for.

As I say, it’s a wonderful day. He saw the light. He’s releasing them this week—that’s what he said—and then more broadly the next week. I’m sure they will be used to point the finger at somebody else again more than actually investing in our school system.

Governance is always a problem, and as long as it’s transparent, democratic, local and effective, it will work. So if there are five trustees or 10 trustees—schools are local. They belong to the families and the communities they serve. But the minister doesn’t see it that way. He thinks, “I can run everything from my office at Queen’s Park. We don’t need trustees. We’re going to run everything from here.” Well, it’s not going to work. It can’t work.

Schools have belonged to the communities in Ontario and families for almost 200 years. There’s a reason for that. So what the minister needs to focus on is making sure that our schools are safe places to learn and to work, because they’re not for three reasons: (1) class sizes have grown too large; (2) special education has been starved—the government delivers $850 million less than boards need that they have to find somewhere else—and (3) there’s a mental health crisis in our schools that’s not being addressed. And it’s just really reflective of what’s going on in broader society and the fact that we had a cohort of kids go through the pandemic. So that’s the thing that the minister needs to be focused on.

I can put it even more simply than that: We don’t have enough adults in schools for the kids that are there. That’s why it’s not working. That’s what the minister needs to focus on, not the focus on governance, not to make that the big issue of the day, not to point the finger, but to actually lift a finger and make sure—because he can. He has that power, that he can lift a finger and ensure that we have enough adults in schools, that we have enough SSLs, that we have enough youth workers, that we have enough mental health workers, that we have enough people in schools to make sure that they’re great, safe places to learn and to work.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): I recognize the member from Markham–Unionville.

Mr. Billy Pang: I appreciate the opportunity to rise this evening to address the concerns raised by the member opposite.

Let me begin by underscoring that EQAO data is a vital tool for empowering parents, informing teachers and supporting students. It provides clarity, transparency and accountability in a system that must always put our young people first.

This government understands that importance. That is why the minister has been clear: The results will be released soon. And the reason for the delay is simple. We want a deeper, more comprehensive understanding of the data. We want to know why some boards are performing better than others and how best practices can be shared across the province.

Speaker, our mission has always been to build an education system where students, parents and teachers come first, where accountability is expected, where transparency is the norm, where resources are directed where they matter most: the classroom.

Unfortunately, not every school board has lived up to these expectations, and if the member opposite spent less time grandstanding in this chamber and more time paying attention to what is happening in his own community, he would know exactly what I’m talking about.

Let’s look at the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board, a board so dysfunctional that in less than a year, three trustees have resigned; a board so out of touch that it pushed ahead with an unpopular elementary program review despite widespread opposition from parents. It took this minister, through the appointment of a supervisor, to finally listen to parents and cancel that so-called review.

But the problems don’t end there. Recent information from the board’s own audit committee shows that trustee mismanagement has pushed the board from an accumulated surplus to an accumulated deficit of $12 million. Speaker, it would have been even worse—a nearly $20-million deficit—but the trustees decided to take funding intended for special education by pulling from a deferred revenue account.

This is exactly why accountability matters. This is why parents are demanding change. This is why our government will continue to act where others refuse.

Look at the record of the previous Liberal government. For 15 years, they closed over 600 schools across Ontario. They underfunded the system, leaving boards scrambling.

And while they shut down schools, our government has taken a very different path. Since 2018, we have invested nearly $5 billion to build and upgrade schools. That means 169 new schools, 124 permanent additions or renovations and more than 125,000 new student spaces. Over the next decade, we are investing more than $23 billion to build and repair even more schools for the next generation.

Speaker, after decades of Liberal underfunding, decades during which Liberals failed to support children with special education needs, we have increased special education funding by more than 36%. Our government is finally turning the page. We are repairing the damage inflicted by the former government’s neglect and ensuring our most vulnerable students get the timely, meaningful support that the Liberals never, ever prioritized.

Now, the member opposite loves to bring out his tired lines about class sizes. But the FAO has confirmed that the facts show that class sizes have actually remained stable.

While the opposition defends chaos, mismanagement and failing trustees, our government continues to put students, parents and teachers first. We will continue to hold school boards accountable. We will continue to invest in classrooms. And we will continue building an education system that puts the success of Ontario’s students above all else.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Ric Bresee): There being no further matters to debate, pursuant to standing order 36(c), I deem the motion to adjourn to be carried.

This House now stands adjourned until 9 a.m. tomorrow.

The House adjourned at 1850.