The committee met at 0901 in committee room 2.

Selection of estimates

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): Good morning, everyone. The Standing Committee on Social Policy will now come to order.

Our agenda this morning is the selection of the 2025-26 estimates for consideration. Pursuant to standing order 62(b), these estimates, upon tabling, are deemed to be referred to the standing committees to which the respective ministries and offices were assigned pursuant to standing 113(b).

All committee members should have received an electronic copy of the 2025-26 estimates and the corresponding ministry briefing books from the Clerk.

The estimates from the following ministries have been referred to the Standing Committee on Social Policy for selection and consideration:

—Ministry of Children, Community and Social Services;

—Ministry of Colleges, Universities, Research Excellence and Security;

—Ministry of Education;

—Ministry of Health;

—Ministry of Long-Term Care;

—Ministry for Seniors and Accessibility.

The objective of today’s meeting is to select the estimates of certain ministries or offices for review by this committee. Standing order 63 sets out the process by which the committee makes its selections. With each turn, each recognized party may choose the estimates of one ministry. If a member of one party declines to make a selection, the selection then passes to the next party in rotation. The process concludes when either there are no further ministries available to select or all parties decline to make further selection.

The estimates of those ministries or offices not selected for consideration will be deemed to have been passed by the committee. As Chair, I will report those unselected estimates back to the House, and they will be deemed to be adopted and concurred in by the House.

When making your selections, I would also like to add that—if members could please look at the list of ministries in the estimates book or as displayed on the screen in front of you and give the correct names of the ministries when you select them for consideration.

Do any members have any questions before we begin?

I’ll start with the official opposition for the first selection. I recognize MPP Gélinas.

M^me France Gélinas: I select the Ministry of Health.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): I’ll go to the government side. I recognize MPP Leardi.

Mr. Anthony Leardi: We select the Ministry for Seniors and Accessibility.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): The official opposition: I recognize MPP Gélinas.

M^me France Gélinas: The Ministry of Education.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): Back to the government side: MPP Leardi.

Mr. Anthony Leardi: The Ministry of Long-Term Care.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): Back to the official opposition.

M^me France Gélinas: The Ministry of Colleges, Universities, Research Excellence and Security.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): And the last one, to the government: MPP Leardi.

Mr. Anthony Leardi: The Ministry of Children, Community and Social Services.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): Is there any other business which members may wish to raise? Go ahead.

M^me France Gélinas: Do we know when estimates will start?

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): We’ll be meeting again at 1 o’clock and discussing that then.

M^me France Gélinas: So at 1 o’clock this afternoon we will decide when estimates will start, or do estimates start at 1 o’clock this afternoon?

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): That is something that can be brought up this afternoon at 1 p.m.

Go ahead.

Ms. Aislinn Clancy: Just to clarify: The meeting at 1 o’clock is to decide the schedule for the estimates meetings?

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): Yes.

Ms. Aislinn Clancy: At 1 o’clock we’ll decide when the estimates will be debated.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): Yes.

Is there any other business anybody wants to speak of?

M^me France Gélinas: Why can we not decide this morning rather than this afternoon at 1 o’clock? What difference will it make if we wait for another three hours?

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): MPP Leardi.

Mr. Anthony Leardi: We need the staff to put together the motion to do the scheduling. But do you know what? If we can get it done faster, maybe we can all—

M^me France Gélinas: Before 10:15 this morning?

Mr. Anthony Leardi: It’s not going to happen.

M^me France Gélinas: Okay.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): Thank you, everyone, for attending today’s meeting.

This committee stands in recess until 1 o’clock this afternoon.

The committee recessed from 0906 to 1300.

Committee business

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Vanessa Kattar): Good afternoon, honourable members. In the absence of a Chair and a Vice-Chair, it is my duty to call upon you to elect an Acting Chair. Do we have any nominations?

MPP Leardi.

Mr. Anthony Leardi: I nominate Dave Smith.

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Vanessa Kattar): MPP Smith, do you accept the nomination?

Mr. Dave Smith: I do.

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Vanessa Kattar): Are there any further nominations? There being no further nominations, I declare nominations closed and MPP Smith elected Acting Chair.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Dave Smith): Good afternoon, members. We’ll now resume our committee meeting.

Are there any motions or further business? MPP Leardi.

Mr. Anthony Leardi: I have a motion, Chair. I move that, pursuant to standing order 63(d), the following time be allotted to the consideration of the estimates of the ministries selected by the committee:

—the Ministry of Health for three hours;

—the Ministry for Seniors and Accessibility for two hours;

—the Ministry of Education for three hours;

—the Ministry of Long-Term Care for two hours;

—the Ministry of Colleges, Universities, Research Excellence and Security for three hours; and

—the Ministry of Children, Community and Social Services for three hours; and

That the ministers responsible for those respective ministries be invited to appear before the committee; and

That for each ministry, the minister be allotted 20 minutes to make an opening statement, followed by question and answer in rotations of 15 minutes for the official opposition members of the committee, 15 minutes for the Liberal members of committee, five minutes for the independent member of the committee, and 15 minutes for the government members of the committee for the remainder of the allotted time; and

That the committee meet for the purpose of considering the estimates of the selected ministries at the following times:

—the Ministry of Health on Tuesday, October 28, 2025, from 3 p.m. until 6 p.m.; and

—the Ministry for Seniors and Accessibility on Monday, November 3, 2025, from 1 p.m. until 3 p.m.; and

—the Ministry of Education on Monday, November 3, 2025, from 3 p.m. until 6 p.m.; and

—the Ministry of Long-Term Care on Tuesday, November 4, 2025, from 3 p.m. until 5 p.m.; and

—the Ministry of Colleges, Universities, Research Excellence and Security on Wednesday, November 12, 2025, from 10 a.m. until 1 p.m.; and

—the Ministry of Children, Community and Social Services on Wednesday, November 12, 2025, from 2 p.m. until 5 p.m.; and

That the subcommittee on committee business be authorized to revise dates and times if necessary.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): Further debate? I recognize MPP Pasma.

Ms. Chandra Pasma: I just want to say on the record that it is disappointing, from the official opposition’s perspective, that there is so little time to review the estimates of the government on behalf of the people of Ontario, particularly when the government’s budget bill was not allowed to go to committee earlier this year. So there has been very little public scrutiny on the spending plans of the government. It’s unfortunate that the government does not want to allow the people of Ontario to have a fulsome review of how money is being spent on their behalf.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): Further debate? I recognize MPP Clancy.

Ms. Aislinn Clancy: In the future, I’d love for us to organize this. We had five months to discuss the budget. I’m looking at my calendar. I know we all have things planned—I don’t know if you all do. But it sometimes makes me feel quite unprofessional when I have to sort everything out and reorganize everything over again. So, in future, if we could try to address some of these budget issues before we head back, I think it would make our time—we know that seven weeks is really short to be here in the first place, so it would be good to do some of the committee business ahead of time. In the future, if we could get organized and go through this at an earlier time, it would, I think, be respectful of everybody’s time.

The Chair (Mr. Brian Riddell): Thank you for your comment.

Further debate? Are the members ready to vote? Shall the motion carry? All those in favour, please raise your hand. All those opposed, please raise your hand. The motion is carried.

Are there any other motions or business for discussion?

Thank you, everyone, for attending today’s meeting.

The committee stands adjourned until Tuesday, October 28, 2025.

The committee adjourned at 1306.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL POLICY

Chair / Président

Mr. Brian Riddell (Cambridge PC)

First Vice-Chair / Première Vice-Présidente

M^me France Gélinas (Nickel Belt ND)

Second Vice-Chair / Deuxième Vice-Présidente

MPP Andrea Hazell (Scarborough–Guildwood L)

Ms. Aislinn Clancy (Kitchener Centre / Kitchener-Centre G)

Ms. Jess Dixon (Kitchener South–Hespeler / Kitchener-Sud–Hespeler PC)

M^me France Gélinas (Nickel Belt ND)

MPP Andrea Hazell (Scarborough–Guildwood L)

Mr. John Jordan (Lanark–Frontenac–Kingston PC)

Mr. Anthony Leardi (Essex PC)

MPP Robin Lennox (Hamilton Centre / Hamilton-Centre ND)

Mr. Billy Pang (Markham–Unionville PC)

Ms. Natalie Pierre (Burlington PC)

Mr. Brian Riddell (Cambridge PC)

Mrs. Daisy Wai (Richmond Hill PC)

Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Ms. Chandra Pasma (Ottawa West–Nepean / Ottawa-Ouest–Nepean ND)

Mr. Dave Smith (Peterborough–Kawartha PC)

Clerk / Greffière

Ms. Vanessa Kattar

Staff / Personnel

Ms. Sandra Lopes, research officer,
Research Services