Transcript
Friday, September 11, 2026
17:23 minutes (audio)
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Amanda Cupido: Welcome to season three of ON Parliament – A podcast highlighting the history, processes, and people that shape Ontario. If you want to know more about what happens behind the iconic doors of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, then you're in the right place. Hi, my name is Amanda Cupido. I'm a podcast producer, and I work with the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to help share non-partisan stories with people like you.
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We've got a lot of great episodes lined up for you this season, including today's show, which breaks down the process for how a bill becomes a law.
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Thank you, Speaker. I move that leave be given to introduce a bill entitled An Act to Amend Various Acts, and that it now be read for the first time.
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Ms. Kanjin has moved that leave be given to introduce a bill entitled An Act to Amend Various Acts, and let it now be read for the first time.
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Amanda Cupido: The clip you just heard is of a Minister and the Speaker, who are both standing in the Chamber preparing for the introduction and first reading of a bill. But before we get into explaining the process, it's best we back up a bit and address what is a bill?
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To answer that, I'm bringing in Valerie Quioc Lim, who's the Deputy Clerk and Executive Director of Legislative Services.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: A bill is a proposed law or proposed legislation. So, one of the main functions of the Legislative Assembly is to debate and consider bills and pass legislation. So, they can talk about it, make changes to it, reject it, or pass it, and then it becomes a law or a statute.
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Amanda Cupido: Now, there are two main categories for the types of bills there are. Public and private. So, describe what is a private bill.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: A private bill is, it really is a proposal that relates to a specific person or persons or organization and corporation, and it's usually seeking some sort of exemption from the general law.
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So the big thing to take away from that is it really affects a small group, whether it's a specific company or a specific municipality. It doesn't apply to the general public.
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Amanda Cupido: Right. All right. Now then we've got the public bills. And these are the ones that we hear a lot about more in the news. So there are three types within that public track, public bills. So private bills we're gonna kinda leave aside for the rest of this conversation. Good to know they're there. But with a future podcast, right? Yeah, future podcast episode. Okay. We'd be talking about bills all day.
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But in the public bills, within public bills, there's three types. Walk us through those.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Okay. Well, I'll start with that public bills are, they really apply to the general public, so all Ontarians. And the three types are, we have, I'll start with the kind of least common one that we see, and they're committee bills.
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And they start, they're initiated or they're introduced by a standing committee, and there's a procedure or process behind how that can take place. And there's what we call private member's public bills. So, these bills are introduced by what we call private members. So, they can be members of the opposition, or independent members, or even a member from the governing party who is not a cabinet minister.
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So essentially, it's not from the executive council. Now, government bills, which is probably what you've heard most about, government bills are introduced by cabinet ministers, or essentially the executive council.
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Amanda Cupido: All right. So, committee bills, they actually are quite rare. We haven't had one of those in over 20 years here in Ontario.
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Private member's public bills, they're more frequent, but they don't make the headlines as much. Why don't you briefly talk about those before we get to government bills?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Sure. So private member's public bills, they are introduced by what we call private members. So, they're not cabinet ministers, so it's not part of the executive, but it could be opposition members, independent members, or even members of the governing party who are not part of cabinet.
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They are usually considered in a time that we call private member's public business. So, the House, during Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, they set aside a time in the evening, usually at 6:00, where these private members can introduce their own business, whether it's a motion or a bill. So, it gives them a time to tell the House, "This is an item of business that we'd like the House to consider."
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And that's usually the path for private member's public bills.
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Amanda Cupido: Fascinating. All right. Now, government bills are the ones that we hear a lot about in the news, have a lot of direct impact on our everyday lives, on things like taxes. So let's focus on that for the rest of the podcast. And those kinds of bills have a very specific process they have to go through before they become a law, and we're gonna dive into what that process is.
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Okay ... if you're ready for it, Val.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Yeah, sure. Sure.
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Amanda Cupido: Okay, so the, the first step, what is it?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: So all bills go through three readings, or we can call it three stages, and in between that there's the committee stage that I'll talk about. So, the first stage or first reading is introducing the bill, and that happens during, we call, afternoon routine proceedings in the House.
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There's an opportunity for members to introduce their bills. So, the Speaker will call for introduction of government bills or introduction of bills. At this time, it's really to get the bill before the House, cause no one's seen this bill before. They don't know what it's about, because we don't have an, what we call a notice requirement.
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So, it'll be introduced in the House, and then after that it'll be printed, posted on the website in English and French, and it'll give a chance for everyone, members and the public, to review and see what this bill is about.
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Amanda Cupido: And what I think is interesting about this phase is that there's no debate. It's just being introduced.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: That's right. There's no debate. It's just introduced, and it carries. Usually there's no recorded vote. It's just what we call a voice vote. The Speaker will put it out there, and then it carries. And at that time, the member can do a brief explanation, just the what.
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What is this bill doing? After that, it passes, and then it waits for second reading stage.
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Amanda Cupido: Alright, yeah. So let's get into it. Okay. There's a lot that happens in the second reading stage. Right. So, walk us through that.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Second reading can take, it can be a short second reading, or it can take many weeks and days.
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It really depends on the bill. But that's when the House really, well, we say debates the principle of the bill. So, they don't get into the specifics, but they get, really do get into the principle of what this bill is about.
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Amanda Cupido: Or the purpose, right?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Mm-hmm. That's right.
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Amanda Cupido: Yeah. Okay. And usually there's about six and a half hours at least of debate that happens around that
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Right. I'll point out that at the six and a half, that's also when what we call a time allocation motion can be introduced, and it will set the path for how that bill will move through the House or in committees. But they can continue debating a bill at second reading even after six and a half hours.
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They can keep going. Once they reach the point where they're finished, there's no one else who would like to speak, it goes to a vote.
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Amanda Cupido: Mm-hmm. And then what happens after it's gonna go to the next, I guess, sub-phase of this second reading
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Valerie Quioc Lim: That's right. So, if second reading, the motion for second reading is carried, it passes, it usually goes to a standing committee.
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So earlier I said that we, the House looks at the principle of the bill, not necessarily the specifics. So, a committee is where the members can look at the specifics of a bill. So usually there will be public hearings. This is where there's a chance for Ontarians or members of the public can provide some input on the bill, and then the committee will look at the bill, what we call clause by clause, section by section.
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So, specifics here to say whether they wanna leave it and not make any changes or propose some changes to the bill to make it more palatable, more acceptable to, to the members.
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Amanda Cupido: And then that's the time, too, where it's really nuanced. Like, they're wanting to get the wording really specific, and this is really where it's the last time to make amendments to the bill, right, is in this phase?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: It's usually in this phase. There may be opportunities later, but typically what we've seen, this is the, this is the part where changes are made to a bill. Mm-hmm. And then the committee will report the bill back to the House.
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Amanda Cupido: Okay. Mm-hmm. And so, then the House has the opportunity to accept that committee report and bring it to the third phase.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: That's right. The third phase or third reading is when the House will review or consider the bill in its final form, whether there were no changes made, and okay, this is it, this is the last time that we're going to debate it, or the committee has made changes, now let's talk about that.
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Do we like it better? Are we happier? Are people more in support or people even more against it? So that will be the debate in third reading, and then there will be a vote on that.
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Amanda Cupido: Now, usually, though, I think it's kind of rare for there to be a lot of debate at this, at this stage. Is that correct?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Right. There's less debate in third than the second. Second is where they really get into it. More hours. So, there are fewer hours of debate in third reading, as we've seen. And then after that, if it carries, then the bill is waiting for royal assent before it officially becomes a law.
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Amanda Cupido: Okay, so, and for those who don't know, what does carries mean?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Carries means actually if it goes to a vote and it passes.
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Amanda Cupido: Right. Mm-hmm. So, it's considered passed by the House, which almost sounds like it's almost a law- It's over, but not ... but it is not quite. That's right. Right. All right, so the final, final step for it to become a law, what does that look like?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: So royal assent is, uh, given by the Lieutenant Governor. So, the royal assent can happen outside of the Chamber. So usually, it could be in the Lieutenant Governor's suite here, or we can see royal assent happen in the Chamber as well. And after that's given, it depends on the bill. It may say that this is effective, essentially, is the word once it receives royal assent, or sometimes there's a specific other date it is.
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But it's, without royal assent, it's not official, so that's when it really becomes a law.
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Amanda Cupido: And so the LG or the lieutenant governor, she's now signing essentially in the Sovereign's name and giving it that final-
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Valerie Quioc Lim: That's right ...
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Amanda Cupido: Stamp of approval.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Exactly.
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Amanda Cupido: And these laws is what makes Ontario. Like, this is such an important part of our democratic process. What's it like being a part of it?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: So, it's cool. Getting front row seats to the debate without really taking part in it. So, for me, that's a role I like. We kind of just make sure that the procedures are being followed and the process and guiding the House and the Speaker through it, but you really see the different ideas coming from the different parties.
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So, it's nice to have front row seats to that. To see how laws are made here.
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Amanda Cupido: Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's figurative and literal front row seats. That's right. The chairs behind us-
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Yes ...
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Amanda Cupido: Are the chairs where you sit. Yeah, yeah. And you've actually had a long run here with the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. How long have you, uh, worked here?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: It's almost 22 years. Whoo. And, a journey, different roles in the Assembly. A lot of it is in the procedural world here. I was also committee clerk for some time, so I talked about committees. Also front row seats and members examining a bill, and the hearings that we hear when the public comes in and make comments, so I was able to see that as well.
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But most recently, a lot of time in the House right here, working with members and the Speaker and presiding officers.
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Amanda Cupido: And for those who are not familiar with work at the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, this is nonpartisan roles, so it doesn't matter what government is in place. That's why you've been able to really just stay through the course of time because you're here to serve.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: That's right, and the nonpartisan part is really important because we want to earn the trust of members from any party so that they can come to us with questions and that we can really provide good advice.
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Amanda Cupido: So, tell me, what does an average day look like for you?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: When the House is in session, a lot of time is spent really here in the Chamber, so not just being here, but preparing for the day, so preparing what questions we might get, scripting for the Speaker, and answering a lot of questions from members, whether right here in the Chamber or behind the scenes.
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It's a lot of anticipating what may come up, anticipating what bills may be called, and what questions we may have to answer. When the House is not sitting, we have a lot of different initiatives and projects, like this one, being involved in a podcast, public engagement here. Just really working on projects and a little bit of catch-up work.
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Amanda Cupido: Do you ever get nervous before you speak in the Chamber here when it's time to stand up and-
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Valerie Quioc Lim: I'm nervous right now! on the podcast, but…
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Amanda Cupido: Oh my gosh, I wouldn't be able to tell. You're doing great.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Well, for sure. So, it's, one of the responsibilities is calling a vote when they, what we say a recorded vote, when we call each member's name so that their vote is recorded, whether they're in favor or against a motion or a bill.
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And, yeah, I still do get nervous, but practice really helps, for sure.
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Amanda Cupido: And what a joy, actually. Like I say, this is what being alive feels like. Right. You have a job that just, you know, really calls for you to stand up literally and have a big role in all of it. So, it's incredible. I appreciate that.
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Why do you like working here?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: I think it's the, through the years, it's the people. Yeah. Whether it's colleagues and staff that we've worked with, like yourselves and behind the scenes here, that people may not hear their voice or see, but we have a team working on this podcast. But seeing all the members too, no matter what party they came from, it's really seeing the dedication that they have.
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It may sound cliché, but when, once, it humanizes the politicians and the MPPs. So, I think that's a big part of feeling like we're part of something bigger and something important. And of course, the process as well. There's just how democracy, plays out in this place. I think it's just even having a small role in that is really I can't find the word right now.
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Meaningful. Yeah. That's it. It's really meaningful, and I can really get behind it and make a commitment to it.
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Amanda Cupido: And, like, leaves you speechless in moments. Right. That's right. Which is beautiful, though. That's so nice. For anyone who's considering a role or a career like this, I mean, many people don't even know this job exists, especially when you're in grade school and you're just learning about it.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Right, right.
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Amanda Cupido: It's the first time sometimes, people are getting exposed to these kinds of roles. Mm-hmm. Like, did you know about it and how did you learn, and what advice would you have for others?
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Right, I didn't know about a lot about Parliament, and I know we're changing that through initiatives like this
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and educating people, young and old, just about what happens here. But I actually stumbled upon this place. I, I started in a role called information officer, so that's the people giving educational tours to school groups, and also just anyone in the public coming in, and that's when I learned about the different roles here, whether it's a research officer, we have a communications department here, interpreters, Hansard transcribers that sit here.
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But of course, the people who work with procedure as well and interpreting the standing orders, advising speaker and members. I'm kind of used to the term parliamentary romantic, so we kind of get excited about the rules and just how it plays out in not just our jurisdictions but in different parliaments across the Commonwealth.
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Amanda Cupido: Valerie, it's been a pleasure speaking with you on the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me.
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Valerie Quioc Lim: Okay. Thank you for having me.
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Amanda Cupido: Okay, when you hear those bells in the building, it means that members are being called to the Chamber for the start of proceedings or for a vote. In the podcast though, it means it's time to leave you with a final fun fact before we sign off. So, let's get to it. The fun fact I've got lined up for you today is about how a bill can fast-track some of the steps we just talked about.
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In Ontario, a bill can move from second reading to passage without further debate when the Legislative Assembly unanimously agrees to skip those additional stages. It's often for legislation that is non-controversial, time-sensitive, or technical in nature.
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To learn more about how a bill becomes a law, visit ola.org and navigate to Visit and Learn, and then click on Parliament and Government. Thank you for listening to ON Parliament. This podcast is produced by the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. I'm Amanda Cupido. This is the first of a whole batch of new episodes coming your way, so you are gonna wanna hit that follow button on your favorite podcast player, so you don't miss an episode.
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Talk to you soon.