Transcript
Friday, September 25, 2026
19:50 minutes (audio)
[00:00:00]
Amanda Cupido: Welcome to ON Parliament. A podcast highlighting the history, processes, and people that shape Ontario. I'm Amanda Cupido. Today, we're getting a glimpse at what it looks like to be a Page.
[00:00:20]
Did you know that each year, about 150 students in grades seven and eight are selected to be part of the program?
They get to meet key parliamentary and political figures and learn firsthand about Ontario's parliament and the legislative process.
[00:00:40]
Manuthi: Well, I have a great interest into the legal aspects of our world, so when I heard about a chance to come and see the Legislative Assembly of Ontario in action, I was just, I couldn't wait for the opportunity, so I decided to apply for it.
[00:00:50]
Amanda Cupido: That's Manuthi. She just finished up her role as a Page.
[00:01:00]
Manuthi: When I first came in the Chamber, I thought it was so grand and majestic. As you just walk in there, how spacious and how, just to think that I'm here and this is where our economic and political and social lives are all structured from the start of here. And just to think of that really gives you a deep understanding of how, just how spectacular this room really is.
[00:01:10]
Amanda Cupido: She's 13 years old, by the way. Henry was another Page in her cohort.
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Henry: We serve, like, everyone in the House, like the press, like the MPPs, like the Speaker, the Clerks, even like the security guards and the ceremonial officers. We serve everyone.
[00:01:40]
Amanda Cupido: Both Manuthi and Henry sat with me in the Chamber decked out in their uniform, which is a very professional three-piece suit.
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Henry: It's quite a sight to see a bunch of 13-year-olds in suits marching throughout the Legislative Assembly. But we march in two-by-twos doing 90-degree turns at all of the corners. And sometimes we do something called a split, where we branch off in two directions and then we regroup at the end.
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Amanda Cupido: In addition to their duties serving, Pages also take part in legislative process class.
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Henry: Something that really was memorable to me was how a bill becomes a law, and even seeing that firsthand throughout the Chamber was just a really great experience, and it really put everything into perspective.
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Amanda Cupido: Now, the person who leads the students through this learning is Francisco Gutiérrez. He's the Page Coordinator at the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, and he joins me now to talk about the program. So why don't we start with you describing the full description of the role?
[00:02:40]
Franco Gutiérrez: Yes, so a Legislative Page. So they are a very important part of the functions of the Chamber. So they are the ones who are able to actually walk about. So no one is allowed to move in the Chamber apart from the elected officials. If anyone from outside of the Chamber or from the under press wants to get a message delivered, it is the Page's job to deliver it from them to the members and back and forth. They also help deliver with waters and some of the key documents such as petitions, bills, motions, all of those are handed from a Page to the Clerk's desk or to the Speaker.
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Amanda Cupido: And how often are these things happening?
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Franco Gutiérrez: So it varies on the part of the day. So during Question Period is kind of the most chaotic period. If anyone's watched it, they can attest to that. But that's when the Pages are the busiest. They are getting water for thirsty members. They're also delivering messages from staffers to the MPPs, from the Clerk's table to around the legislative precinct. And they're basically busy all around the Chamber, the lobbies, and the buildings, both here and across the street in Whitney Block.
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Amanda Cupido: And do you find that it's an easy learning curve for them to understand all of their duties and what has to be done?
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Franco Gutiérrez: It always seems like a lot. So during orientation, it's kind of an information overload, where they have a lot of procedures. There's a lot of new things that they're being taught and they're learning, and they're kind of expected to be able to slot right in with the functions of the House, which is a very fast-paced and sometimes noisy environment.
But after the first few days, those nerves kind of turn into excitement, and they're eager to do even more things than they are. They almost sometimes will fight to do those deliveries and to get involved in those procedures. So it is a learning curve, but after a few days, they know it like the back of their hand.
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Amanda Cupido: That's so sweet. Well, a fun fact is that I voiced the Page training video, and so I know how overwhelming it seems. It seemed overwhelming to me. They have to memorize every single MPP and where they're sitting. Yes. And they have to memorize how to get around this entire building, which, to be honest, I don't even know how to do. So like Kudos to them.
[00:04:50]
Franco Gutiérrez: Yes. Absolutely. It's, it is a lot. And you know, there's always support there in the Chamber to help facilitate that. So we have Legislative Ushers, which are university students, and they help out when the Pages don't know where a member sits or they've forgotten a face. I'll be upstairs in the Chamber as well, and they can always just come see us. We have a cheat sheet seating plan also behind the Speaker's dais that they can always refer to. And so they have the support there, and because they're generally very studious students, they're able to kind of lock in and kind of be able to participate and do all those responsibilities. But without a doubt, a lot of information, and slowly through practice, it all kind of cements, and they're able to do their duties as efficiently as they always do. Yes. I'm always impressed when I see them in action. Mm-hmm.
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Amanda Cupido: So you speak about what they're doing. I'm just curious, how long are their sessions in total?
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Franco Gutiérrez: So their sessions and their terms follow the parliamentary calendar, and so we will switch groups every constituency week. So that tends to be between two to four or five weeks for every Page group. So they would be missing school for that period of time. It's a Ministry of Education general approved absence. And for that time period, they're not necessarily focused on keeping track and keeping up with their schoolwork that they're missing, but they'll be focused more so on engaging with the Page program curriculum. So two to five weeks would be the rough time, though because it's part of the parliamentary calendar, sometimes we've had terms cut short or have them extended. It really is dependent on House business.
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Amanda Cupido: Now, you in this role also help facilitate some classroom time with them. Mm-hmm. Why don't you speak about that?
[00:06:30]
Franco Gutiérrez: Absolutely. So I am an OCT certified teacher, and one of my favorite parts is actually having class time with the Pages. So we have a class in the basement of the Legislative Assembly, and that's where we discuss legislative process.
I would say it's analogous to the civics course that we take in grade 10 here in Ontario, where we're basically just trying to explain the functions of government, how Parliament works, and giving them some context for what's happening upstairs. So when they're delivering these bills upstairs in the Chamber, they may not realize what it is that they're doing, and then in class we can kind of unpack first reading, second reading, seeing Royal Assent, and then learning about it. And then they also get a chance to meet with parliamentary figures. So if they hear about the Lieutenant Governor representing the King here in Ontario, then they'll actually get to meet her and then ask questions of her in person. So it all kind of melds very well together, and I think the experience in the Chamber and then supplemented with that educational explanation in the classroom really helps bring it to life for them and really helps them kind of immerse themselves into the learning.
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Amanda Cupido: And what do you notice they're saying on the other side of going through the experience? Do you find that lots are wanting to get more involved?
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Franco Gutiérrez: Absolutely. So I think they all leave with a better understanding of how things work, whether it's seeing petitions from the public being presented by an MPP, or ideas from the opposition or the government coming and being presented in the Chamber, or even the many demonstrations that happen around Queen's Park. And so the Legislative Assembly has the motto of Audi Alteram Partem, hear the other side, and that's one of the things that in the Page program we always want them to kind of take on. So when they come, they try to listen to all the perspectives, try to hear everything, and gather as much information as possible. And then when they leave, whether they want to get involved in politics, engage in nonpartisan activity, or continue demonstrating community involvement, there is always an element that they're able to see how putting that into practice can have an impact.
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Amanda Cupido: What is the most enjoyable part of it for you?
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Franco Gutiérrez: I think definitely as a teacher, it's seeing those learning moments from the Pages is when they have the curiosity, or maybe they didn't even know they were curious about something, but you start seeing those moments where they're, things are clicking for them and they're starting to understand, okay, it's not just a structure of the Assembly to make these decisions, but they're actually seeing the people behind all of it and the humanization of that when it humanizes the MPPs, the politicians, the Clerks, all of those figures, it really makes it real and also attainable for them. So whenever a Page is like, "Oh, I wanna be a Clerk," or, "I want to be an MPP," or if they want to go down into STEM, as long as they have the understanding and that realization of what the Legislative Assembly does, it's always a nice feeling because as a big believer in civic education, when you see them being educated and actually learning these things, they'll sometimes go home and we'll have parents telling us that they've learned more from their Page being here, their child being here as a Page, than they did prior to that, and that's always something that's very special is kind of spreading that word and that civic engagement through them.
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Amanda Cupido: That's great. Now, this program is quite storied actually. It's been around for a long time. So why don't you tell us a little bit about the history of the Page program?
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Franco Gutiérrez: Absolutely. So it is a very old program. So the three-piece suits kind of attest to that. So back in the day, before Confederation, we do still have references to Pages in the Chamber, so in parliaments. And so when that program would've begun, it would've still been younger students, but the focus wouldn't necessarily have been on education. The focus more so would've been on serving the House. As that's progressed, we got into the mid-20th century, that slowly started evolving where we got a Page tutor, so that the Pages that were taken out of school were able to continue some form of studies and they weren't missing out too much on their education. So the older, uniforms would've had a bow tie. They would've had, stove top pants and some high socks. And it's always interesting to see Pages, whenever they see this history, it really ties them into the history of the province and of the building, 'cause it's a very old building. It's a very grandiose building. And it kind of gives them that sense of, wow, there have been literally hundreds of children who've kind of participated in this. And then now with the educational component, they really get to benefit, not just from the honourarium that they receive, but from the learning that they get while they're actually serving.
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Amanda Cupido: So there's a lot of changes with regard to the education and the uniform, but I also know that there were some changes with who was admitted and how the program ran. Why don't you speak about that?
[00:11:00]
Franco Gutiérrez: Yeah, absolutely. So historically, it would've been Pages just coming from Toronto. Now it's opened up to Pages from all across every corner of the province. So whether they come from Thunder Bay or from as close by as Toronto Center, it doesn't matter which riding, they all get the opportunity to come and serve as a Page. So as diverse of opinions and experiences are in the Chamber with the MPPs, the Pages are also reflecting that as well.
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Amanda Cupido: Mm-hmm. There's also really lovely moments of what the kids are saying and what you're hearing, especially with goodbyes. And, you know, to pull back the curtain, this today was a big goodbye. It was the end of, this session that was, just here with us. So yeah, what are some of the things, like share what you've heard or things that stand out to you as really memorable moments?
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Franco Gutiérrez: Those are always very, very sweet moments because, I've been very fortunate where a lot of the students leave and they're sad to leave. And so even if it wasn't necessarily their idea to apply, maybe there was some parental pressure to apply, by the end of the program, there's always something meaningful that they gain from it, whether it be being surrounded by other high-achieving students, whether it be, you know, maybe students that are quieter in their classes, maybe they come out of their shell a little bit during the Page program. We afford a little bit more independence. They're making deliveries, on their own. They're interacting with MPPs, and they are expected to fill these roles and this responsibility that might not necessarily be afforded to them in school. So when you give them these expectations and these responsibilities, they tend to rise to those challenges. And when they leave, they get that renewed sense of confidence, that sense of self, especially in that critical age of 12 to 14, where they're kind of forming that identity. And so they get imparted with those experiences, and they always have something positive to say, which has been very, very nice to hear, whether it be the classes that they have downstairs with me, or just being able to witness what's happening upstairs in the Chamber, or the friendships that they make. So there are Page groups and many Pages that have come back and visited, and they always tell me whether they're keeping in touch or they have that special connection to the Assembly, which lasts a lifetime.
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Amanda Cupido: Beautiful. Do you know where the word Page comes from?
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Franco Gutiérrez: I have a rough memory, and my understanding is that the word Page actually derives from a servant or a young servant. So it would've been historically a middle-age Page, from the Middle Ages rather, not middle-aged. But a Page from the Middle Ages would be serving a nobleman or a knight. So they would still receive an education, though there would sometimes be a education in combat, but they would be serving food and things like that. That term has evolved into someone who is serving a legislative body. So in the Commonwealth, in all the parliaments, there is a Page program. Ontario boasts the youngest Pages in the Commonwealth. So that term Page or servant of a House, is something that is something that is used across the world. So in different parliaments from New Zealand to the UK to Ottawa to Toronto, we have those Legislative Pages. So it's a long history that does go back, and they are still in service of the House. So yeah.
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Amanda Cupido: Are there any other fun facts that you feel like people don't know but you wish they did about the Page program?
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Franco Gutiérrez: Oh, that's a tough one. Some fun facts about the Page program. I think the fact that they are some of the youngest Pages, in the Commonwealth, I think adds an extra layer to it just because you have 12 to 14-year-olds interacting with the Legislative Assembly. And kind of seeing, when I hear their feedback, the world through their eyes as they're interpreting it in real time is always very, very fascinating. And just hearing their perspective. So some of the things that they may notice during Question Period is they get a behind-the-scenes look and behind-the-scenes ear, where they hear things that might not get caught by the mics or the cameras. And so, they're witnessing the spectacle of Queen's Park and Question Period unfiltered.
They are hearing the things that might not necessarily be broadcast, and they're able to fill in those gaps. And so it always gives them that very special, VIP, very important Page feeling. So whenever they're walking around the Assembly and there's a visiting school group, their posture always gets a little bit straighter and their chin goes a little bit higher where they get to walk by and they feel that sense of accomplishment and independence there. So I think the fun fact would be whenever there is a school group, whether it be grade fives or grade tens for civics, there are always comments, where there's some excitement from the visiting school groups and the Pages, take pride in maintaining a poker face, 'cause impartiality and being nonpartisan is an important part of the Page program. So I think that's always a, a very funny interaction anytime I see it.
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Amanda Cupido: Nice. Mm-hmm. All right. And I wanna know what an average day looks like for them. So walk us through, like start to finish, what are they doing when they come in?
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Franco Gutiérrez: Absolutely. So the day of the Legislative Page is quite long, as many of them will attest.
So we'll have briefing Monday to Thursday, 8:15 in the morning. They'll be in full uniform, and we all gather as a class. We'll take an attendance, and we have Page captains assigned every day. The Page captains get to come up with the Speaker's procession, so they'll be following the Sergeant-At-Arms, the Speaker, and the Clerks into the Chamber, and they also function as captains on that given day.
So they'll be able to maintain an eye over all of their fellow Pages, leading them, and the following day they give a Page captain report where they're saying what they did well, things they could improve on, and strategies for improvement. So the morning starts off with attendance, a Page captain report, and then I go over what the day will entail.
So because we follow the parliamentary calendar and the parliamentary schedule, it's variable. Any given day can be switched up just a little, but it can include meetings with the Clerk, meetings with the Speaker, meetings with the Premier or the leader of the official opposition. There will be times where we will have, photographs, professional photographs taken or meetings with other parliamentary figures.
We have class time. Typically during orders of the day, half of them will be upstairs while half of them are in the legislative classroom, and then during question period it's all hands on deck. We'll have a lunch period and then in the afternoon, all hands on deck again for key documents, so delivering bills, motions, reports by committees or petitions.
And then again, it is orders of the day. Half of them will come down for an independent study period, and then the other half will stay in the Chamber and they will be dismissed. The Fridays are special because the Legislative Assembly doesn't hold meetings on Friday, so it means that we have a field trip.
So that field trip can include things like trips to the Royal Ontario Museum, to Ripley's Aquarium, or to Medieval Times. So things like that. They get a nice little capstone and a reward after a busy and long week.
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Amanda Cupido: And especially for those visiting from outside of the city, I'm sure it's quite special.
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Franco Gutiérrez: That's an absolutely important point to bring up, is that for many of these Pages, they're not from Toronto, so that Friday is an opportunity to kind of explore the city that, you know, some of them might be riding transit for the first time. Mm-hmm. And just to be able to see that, that's definitely part of the experience as well, is getting to know the city.
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Amanda Cupido: Today's fun fact is about Ontario's first female Pages. They were appointed in 1971 under Speaker Fred Cass. A Page mistress was hired to oversee the female Pages, and her role soon expanded to supervise all Pages. The tides shifted completely in the fall of 1980 when an all-girl group of Pages was selected, reflecting the high number of female applicants, which was more than triple the number of male candidates.
That's a wrap for today, but if you're interested in learning more about the Page application process, they are accepted online twice a year in the spring and fall. If you wanna learn more and apply, visit ola.org. Thank you for listening to ON Parliament. This podcast is produced by the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. I'm Amanda Cupido. We've got lots more where this came from. Be sure to hit that follow button on your favorite podcast player so you don't miss an episode. Bye for now.