1264030 ONTARIO INC. ACT, 2000



Wednesday 14 June 2000

1264030 Ontario Inc. Act, 2000, Bill Pr21, Mr Bartolucci
Mr Rick Bartolucci , MPP
Mr André Lacroix

Huron University College Act, 2000, Bill Pr24, Mr Wood
Mr Bob Wood, MPP
Mr Grant Barker


Chair / Présidente
Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York ND)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Président

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North / -Nord PC)

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay / -Timmins-Baie James ND)
Mrs Claudette Boyer (Ottawa-Vanier L)
Mr Brian Coburn (Carleton-Gloucester PC)
Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North / -Nord PC)
Mr Raminder Gill (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale PC)
Mr Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex L)
Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York ND)
Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey PC)

Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Mr Bob Wood (London West / -Ouest PC)
Mr David Young (Willowdale PC)

Clerk / Greffière

Ms Anne Stokes

Staff / Personnel

Ms Susan Klein, legislative counsel

The committee met at 1004 in committee room 1.

Clerk of the Committee (Ms Anne Stokes): Good morning, honourable members. The Vice-Chair and the Chair are both absent this morning, so it is my duty now to call for elections for an Acting Chair. Are there any nominations?

Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): I nominate Pat Hoy.

Clerk of the Committee: Mr Hoy is nominated. Are there any other nominations? Seeing none, Mr Hoy is Acting Chair for this morning.

1264030 ONTARIO INC. ACT, 2000

Consideration of Bill Pr21, An Act to revive 1264030 Ontario Inc.

The Acting Chair (Mr Pat Hoy): Good morning. I'll call this meeting to order and call Bill Pr21, An Act to revive 1264030 Ontario Inc. Mr Bartolucci would like to make some opening comments.

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): I appreciate the opportunity to make very brief comments. This is an act to revive this company. We have a teleconference with the lawyer representing the two individuals. They appear to have followed all the rules and regulations that set out the requirements to revive this. So I turn it back over to you, Chair. If there are any questions, I believe we have, via teleconference, Mr Lacroix.

Mr André Lacroix: Yes, I'm here.

Mr Bob Wood (London West): Have any objections been received to this bill?

The Acting Chair: I don't believe there have been.

Mr Wood: Do you know that?

Mr Bartolucci: There have been no objections received. Mr Lacroix, can you substantiate that?

Mr Lacroix: There have been no objections received here either.

M. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay) : Bonjour, monsieur Lacroix. C'est Gilles Bisson, député provincial de Timmins-Baie-James.

Je voulais savoir-on a seulement devant nous ce projet de loi-pourquoi vous avez changé le nom de votre compagnie.

M. Lacroix : Je vais vous répondre assez brièvement. Ces gens-là ont engagé un avocat en janvier 1998 pour incorporer une compagnie et ils lui ont versé des argents. L'avocat leur a remis les articles tels quels, 1264030. Sur la base des articles, ils ont procédé à opérer la compagnie, leur business avec la compagnie. C'est seulement en 1998, lorsque le comptable a fait le premier rapport, qu'ils ont été informés que la compagnie avait été dissoute.

La raison pour la dissolution, qui normalement est facile à renouveler, c'est que le chèque qu'il avait soumis pour payer les frais n'a pas été honoré. Alors, apparemment c'est une raison qui exige que la compagnie soit renouvelée par un acte de parlement.

M. Bisson : Donc, la seule manière de résoudre votre problème est en travers.

M. Lacroix : C'est ce que j'ai fait là. Oui.

M. Bisson : OK. Nous, le NPD, n'avons pas d'objections. Je suis sûr que Mme Martel n'a pas d'objections.

M. Lacroix : Vous êtes bien aimable. Merci.

M. Bisson : Puis, la business va bien dans votre coin ?

M. Lacroix : Ce n'est pas si mal, monsieur Bisson. C'est peut-être même un peu mieux que dans votre coin.

M. Bisson : Dieu merci.

The Acting Chair: Are there any other questions? Mr Lacroix, do you have any other remarks?

Mr Lacroix: No. I think that these people were not aware of what had happened to them. The solicitor involved is no longer in practice; he either resigned or was disbarred. So they faced the reality of going through this process and will appreciate the result.

The Acting Chair: Let me say that there has been no written submission or question from the government on this particular bill, for the record. Are we ready to vote?

Shall sections 1 to 3 carry? Carried.

Shall the preamble carry? Carried.

Shall the title carry? Carried.

Shall the bill carry? Carried.

Shall I report the bill to the House? Agreed.

Mr Bisson: Before we go to the other bill, I just have something I'd like to raise, once we're out of this vote and before we go to the other one.


The Acting Chair: Thank you, Mr Lacroix, for your input this morning. Mr Bisson.

Mr Bisson: It's just on the issue of teleconferencing. I understand why this was done this morning, and obviously it didn't affect the outcome of the vote, but I just want to put on the record that I'm not as comfortable as maybe others are when it comes to utilizing teleconferencing for these kinds of things. I find it takes away from the dynamics of being able to look somebody in the eye. The other thing is, it was fairly difficult to understand what Mr Lacroix was saying. You really had to strain through the process. I just want to put it on the record this is not the preferred way of doing things. I don't want this becoming a habit.

The Acting Chair: Thank you for your comments.


Consideration of Bill Pr24, An Act respecting Huron University College.

The Acting Chair: The next order of business is Bill Pr24, An Act respecting Huron University College.

Mr Wood: Mr Chair, this is a bill to alter the organizational and administrative structures of Huron College and to change the name to Huron University College. We have with us today Mr Grant Barker, who can perhaps come forward and identify himself for the purposes of Hansard. As far as we know, no objections have come forward to the bill.

Mr Grant Barker: My name is Grant Barker. I am counsel to the law firm of Siskind, Cromarty, Ivey and Dowler. I am also a member of the executive board of Huron College and have chaired the ad hoc committee on the amendment to the Huron College Act.

Mr Wood: The two of us would be pleased to answer any questions there may be from the committee members.

Mr Bisson: What exactly are we doing in this bill?

Mr Wood: What we're doing is changing the organizational and administrative structures of the college, as set out in the bill, and changing the name, which is proposed to be Huron University College.

Mr Bisson: Just a name change, basically?

Mr Wood: A name change and administrative procedures change.

Mr Bisson: I take it because it was created by an act of legislation-college name or something?

Mr Wood: I'm sorry, I didn't hear.

Mr Bisson: The reason we have to bring this through a private bill process is because it was originally created under a bill with the Legislature?

Mr Wood: Correct. The name and the procedures are mandated by law and now, to change them, you have to change the law.

Mr Bisson: What are the substantive differences in the procedures that you want to change? Is there anything substantive?

Mr Barker: There are two or three items that we are proposing to change in this legislation, the first being that we want to increase the size of the executive board, or board of directors, from eight to 12. Second, we are currently restricted in that our board of directors must come from the diocese of Huron. Our college has a theological history. The diocese of Huron encompasses several counties in southwestern Ontario. Our desire is that we may go outside that geographic area to select our directors.

We have also attempted to provide that our board of directors and members of our college are appointed for four-year terms rather than the two- and three-year terms that are now provided, and that the executive board is entitled to determine by bylaw the length of time that its chair sits. It is now fixed at four years. We find that chairs cannot usually serve for that length of time, so we want to allow some flexibility in that. In addition to that is the name change that we are requesting.

Mr Bisson: Two quick questions: In reverse order, the first one is in regard to fixing the term at four years. How often would that person be able to be reappointed once appointed? Is there a limit on terms?

Mr Barker: Yes, three consecutive terms.

Mr Bisson: So a total of 12 years.

Mr Barker: Yes.

Mr Bisson: The second question is, is moving from a board of eight to 12 because there's a higher enrolment in the college, it's bigger than it was originally created at? Is this the reasoning?

Mr Barker: Not primarily. There's a desire to increase the number of directors. Recognizing that directors serve in a voluntary capacity, we need a larger base from which to hold meetings. We can't always get a sufficient number of people when we're restricted to eight.

Mr Bisson: Would your quorum size change?

Mr Barker: The quorum would be a majority of those.

Mr Bisson: Do you get any provincial funding? I don't think you do.

Mr Barker: Yes, we do. The annual budget of the college is $10 million, of which 31% is funded by government.

Mr Bisson: So they fall under the Council of Regents then, as well, under the larger provincially body as well.

Mr Barker: Yes.

Mr Wood: This is not a community college. This is affiliated with the University of Western Ontario. When you say the Council of Regents, you're thinking of the community college Council of Regents. I don't think they fall under that.

Mr Bisson: So they fall under what auspices?

Mr Wood: They're affiliated with the University of Western Ontario so they're part of the university system. If the Council of Regents you're referring to is the community college Council of Regents-

Mr Bisson: So the degrees are actually coming under the name of the other university?

Mr Wood: They're affiliated with Western.

Mr Barker: Huron has degree-granting privileges in theology. Those privileges have been deferred to the University of Western Ontario. Huron gives courses in liberal arts and social sciences. It does not have degree-granting authority. Those degrees are granted by UWO.

Mrs Claudette Boyer (Ottawa-Vanier): I guess Mr Wood asked at a different point the question I wanted to ask. Basically, it was never a community college?

Mr Barker: No, Huron College is the founding college of the University of Western Ontario, founded primarily as a theological college, but pursuant to its affiliation agreement with the University of Western Ontario, the university actually grants the theological degrees but has permitted Huron College to provide courses, as I said, in liberal arts and social sciences.

Mrs Boyer: That would give a university degree?

Mr Barker: Yes.

Mrs Boyer: OK, that answers that my question.

The Acting Chair: Mr Young.

Mr Young: My question was answered by Mr Barker and by Mr Wood, so I have nothing further.

Mr Raminder Gill (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale): I think one of the analogies might be that close to where I live there's Erindale College, or there was Erindale College, which was, again, a satellite attachment to the U of T. Then it was later changed, perhaps for the same reasons, to University of Toronto, Mississauga campus. I think there's a similarity there. Is that correct?

Mr Barker: I'm not sure of the reference you made. The desire to change the name from Huron College to Huron University College is primarily the confusion that exists in calling yourself a college and being related to a community college as opposed to offering university degrees.

Huron is a college that is now recruiting students in China. We have a Beijing program at the college. We recruit a number of students internationally. There's always a difficulty in explaining what you are if you cannot call yourself a university, so our primary focus is to have "university" in our name.

Mr Gill: I can understand that, especially in terms of foreign context.

Mr Barker: Yes.

Mr Gill: Foreign students, who pay substantially more money, I understand-

Mr Barker: Yes, they're full-paying tuition.

Mr Gill: -are more attuned to saying, "I'm going to university," rather than a college, so I can understand the difference.

Mr Bisson: Just one last question to research: In regard to moving from eight to 12 as far as the size of the board, I take it that's not out of step with any other universities out there. I take it that wouldn't create any kind of precedent or problem?

Ms Susan Klein: No, I don't think it's significant.

Mr Barker: I suspect that most universities would have boards that are probably 20 to 25. They're very substantial boards.

The Acting Chair: We have received no comment from the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities, certainly nothing in the negative. Are there any other questions? Any other comments, Mr Barker?

Mr Barker: I have none, thank you.

The Acting Chair: Thank you for being with us here today.

The Acting Chair: Are we ready to vote?

Shall sections 1 through 18 carry? Carried.

Shall the preamble carry? Carried.

Shall the title carry? Carried.

Shall the bill carry? Carried.

Shall I report the bill to the House? Agreed.

Mr Bisson: I just have one other question, to the clerk of the committee in regard to the work that was being done by, I believe, leg counsel or research with regard to some of the regulations the committee was working on. What's the status on that?

Clerk of the Committee: I've been in contact with the Ministry of the Attorney General, and next week, on Wednesday morning, we will have a meeting scheduled with a representative from that ministry to clarify or discuss the response.

Mr Bisson: Good. That can be expected next week?

Clerk of the Committee: Yes.

The Acting Chair: Any other business?

Mr Bisson: Well, I think it would be very interesting for us to travel to, let's say, Switzerland or somewhere to study parliamentary procedures of regulations and private bills in that fair country. I'm just wondering how members of the government feel about this?

Mr Young: Will that interfere with our trip to France?

The Acting Chair: The committee stands adjourned.

The committee adjourned at 1021.