M001 - Wed 29 Feb 2012 / Mer 29 fév 2012



Wednesday 29 February 2012 Mercredi 29 février 2012




The committee met at 1307 in room 228.


The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Honourable members, it is my duty to call upon you to elect a Chair. Are there any nominations? Mr. Clark.

Mr. Steve Clark: Thank you very much. I would like to nominate Garfield Dunlop for Chair.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Mr. Dunlop, do you accept the nomination?

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I certainly would.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Are there any further nominations?

Mrs. Donna H. Cansfield: I would move that nominations be closed.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): There being no further nominations, nominations are closed. Mr. Dunlop, would you please take the chair.


The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for having confidence in me. I’ll do my very best to be a good Chair of this committee.


The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): The first thing on the agenda is the election of a Vice-Chair of this committee. Do I have any nominations? Mr. Leal.

Mr. Jeff Leal: Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and congratulations on your assumption to the chair. I know this committee will be moving forward in the not-too-distant future, and I’d just like to say, we’ll move forward together.

At this time, it is my distinct pleasure—


Mr. Jeff Leal: Mr. Chair, it is my pleasure to nominate, as the Vice-Chair of this committee, my good friend the member from Nepean–Carleton. The reason I say “good friend” is that I think she’s the only one who didn’t visit my riding during the campaign, so that would be a good friend.


Mr. Jeff Leal: No, Clarkie didn’t come by.

You folks love Peterborough. The only thing is, I was going to take you all out for lunch, but no one was around to go to lunch with me.

Lisa MacLeod for Vice-Chair, thank you very much—with those short introductory remarks.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Oh, you’re awesome.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Are there any other motions or any other debate?

Mrs. Donna H. Cansfield: I declare nominations closed.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Okay. All those in favour of the nomination of Ms. MacLeod for vice-chair? Okay. That is carried.

Do you accept the position?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: You know what? I had reservations until I was nominated by Jeff Leal from Peterborough, so I’m extremely honoured and touched that this was unanimous. I’m looking forward to many more unanimous decisions in this chamber. Thank you very much.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Thank you very much. Congratulations, Ms. MacLeod.


The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): We now have an appointment to the subcommittee on committee business. Ms. Albanese?

Mrs. Laura Albanese: Congratulations, first of all, Mr. Chair.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Thank you.

Mrs. Laura Albanese: I move that a subcommittee on committee business be appointed to meet from time to time at the call of the Chair, or at the request of any member thereof, to consider and report to the committee on the business of the committee;

That the presence of all members of the subcommittee is necessary to constitute a meeting;

That the subcommittee be composed of the following members: the Chair as Chair, Ms. MacLeod, Mr. Balkissoon and Mr. Bisson; and

That substitution be permitted on the subcommittee.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Are there any questions or debate on the motion moved by Laura? All those in favour of it? That is carried. Thank you very much.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Recorded vote, Mr. Chair.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Not already.

Ladies and gentlemen, members of the committee, you had a draft report distributed to the offices. Have you any questions on that report? Mr. Bisson.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Yes, and I would request that we deal with that at the subcommittee level and bring it back to the general committee next week.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Mr. Bisson, because the whole committee is here, we actually have to report on this, so—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I request a 20-minute recess.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Okay, then. Is there any debate or any discussion on this?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: There’s going to be discussion after the 20-minute recess.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Excuse me a second.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Just to be clear, I’m just asking for a few minutes. I’ve just run from one meeting downstairs with the Clerk to this one, and I didn’t grab my paperwork that I needed for this. So I’m asking for a short recess so I can actually run to my office and get the paperwork, just to put it on the record. I was trying to be very stealthy by doing it the other way.

Mrs. Donna H. Cansfield: Do we need 20?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: We’ll need about 10 minutes at most. Ten minutes will do it.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Bisson has requested a 20-minute recess.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I can live with 10.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): A 10-minute recess. Will that carry, then? Okay, thanks.

We’re going to recess for 10 minutes.

The committee recessed from 1313 to 1321.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): We’ll call the meeting back to order. Thanks very much, Mr. Bisson, for getting back so quickly.

The item we have to deal with today on the agenda is the draft report. It has been circulated to you, and we want to know if there has been any discussion on this.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I just have one change that I’d like to do. I’d like to make a swap: that we move, from the Standing Committee on Social Policy, the Ministry of Health, and that we move it over to the Standing Committee on General Government. In exchange, we take municipal affairs from general government and move it over to social policy.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Just one moment.

Please say that again, Mr. Bisson.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: So from the Standing Committee on Social Policy, move the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care over to the Standing Committee on General Government, and from the Standing Committee on General Government, move the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing over to social policy.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Any discussion on the request?

Mr. Jeff Leal: Mr. Chair, as you know, our House leader, Mr. Milloy, is in Kitchener today to undergo some additional medical tests related to his stent surgery. In his absence, our deputy House leader, Mr. Bradley, is in charge, and I know that Mr. Bradley is not available till later this afternoon. Before we would concur with any changes, we would like to consult with our House leader, Mr. Bradley. I would suggest that this is something that could be raised at the House leaders’ meeting at lunchtime tomorrow, if that’s okay with you, Mr. Bisson, before we make this change.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Mr. Chair, I could live with that, and that’s what I was trying to do when I was trying to delay this whole thing. Now you understand.

Mr. Jeff Leal: Okay, thank you. I thought you had your—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: No, no. Just for the record, just so that people understand, that’s why I wanted to delay this particular thing, because I think we need to have a bit of a discussion. That’s all.

Mr. Jeff Leal: So it’s all right for House leaders tomorrow?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I’m happy if the Conservatives are happy, and I think I got a nod that the Conservatives are happy.

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: I’m always happy. Have you not seen the smile?

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Then I’m asking the whole committee. Can we defer this to the next meeting, then?

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Yes.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Is there a problem with that?

Mr. Jeff Leal: That’s great, Mr. Chair, and then we’d have the report back from the House leaders, and we can deal with it then. That’s okay?

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): We will be meeting again next Wednesday at 1 o’clock. Okay?

Mr. Jeff Leal: Sure, okay.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Now, what about subcommittee meetings?


The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): So I’ve got a confirmation or I’ve got support on that motion that Mr. Bisson has made to defer it. All in favour of that? I just want to make sure we’re clear on that. In favour? Yes, okay.

Each of the support staff would like to make a few comments.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Just briefly, I’m Trevor Day, and I’m the clerk of the committee—

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: We love you, Trevor.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): —thank you so much—and the deputy clerk of the committees branch.

This committee—you’ve all received copies of the mandate, but it basically has five aspects: report to the House on the standing orders and procedures of the House, and our actual membership motion says we’re going to be doing that before we do anything else other than what we’ve done here today; report to the House or advise the Speaker and the Board of Internal Economy on the administration of the assembly and services to members; advise the Speaker and the House on the television broadcast system; and review the reports of the Ombudsman as the committee deems necessary, and also report to the House recommendations on guidelines for the Ombudsman. The other thing is what we’re doing here today: prescribing ministries for the policy field committees and then anything else that the House prescribes.

I am here for confidential, not partisan, advice to anybody who needs it. That’s all I’ve got to say.

Mr. Peter Sibenik: My name is Peter Sibenik. I’m the procedural clerk. I work for the journals branch. I’ve been attached to this committee for more than 20 years as one of its research officers. Larry will speak in a minute.

What I deal with is, when the committee is investigating matters of House procedure, House administration, standing orders, things of that nature, then I will be assisting members of the committee in that regard.

The last two things that I worked on for the committee were the budget lockup issues—I think it was the last budget lockup or the one before—and also statutory committee reviews. That was also a report of this particular committee in the last Parliament. Larry?

Mr. Larry Johnston: My name’s Larry Johnston. I’m a research officer. This is my second or third assignment to this committee. I will be dealing with committee matters that are not in Peter’s bailiwick. That means, either myself or one of my colleagues will prepare background materials or provide oral briefings to the committee when requested, prepare summaries of the hearings that the committee has—most often on bills—and draft the committee’s reports on the basis of the committee’s instructions, when required.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Any questions of any of the gentlemen?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: To the procedural clerk: Statutory committee reviews—explain?

Mr. Peter Sibenik: Well, what happened in the last Parliament was that there was supposed to be a committee of the Legislative Assembly that was supposed to take a look at the LHINs by a certain timeline; that didn’t occur by that particular timeline, and so the Speaker referred that particular matter to this particular committee to investigate. What happened in that situation is that there was retroactive legislation that came into place to fix the fact that the review did not originally occur by the specified time. So the committee just investigated that particular situation and reported back to the House. None of these reports, including that one, were ever adopted by the House. They died on the Orders and Notices paper.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Okay.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Any other questions? With that, then, that concludes the agenda for today. We’ll meet a week from today, next Wednesday, at 1 o’clock in the afternoon.

The committee is adjourned.

The committee adjourned at 1328.


Wednesday 29 February 2012

Election of Chair M-1

Election of Vice-Chair M-1

Appointment of subcommittee M-1


Chair / Président

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North / Simcoe-Nord PC)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Présidente

Ms. Lisa MacLeod (Nepean–Carleton PC)

Mrs. Laura Albanese (York South–Weston / York-Sud–Weston L)

Mr. Bas Balkissoon (Scarborough–Rouge River L)

Mr. Gilles Bisson (Timmins–James Bay / Timmins–Baie James ND)

Mrs. Donna H. Cansfield (Etobicoke Centre / Etobicoke-Centre L)

Mr. Steve Clark (Leeds–Grenville PC)

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North / Simcoe-Nord PC)

Mr. Jeff Leal (Peterborough L)

Ms. Lisa MacLeod (Nepean–Carleton PC)

Mr. Jonah Schein (Davenport ND)

Clerk / Greffier

Mr. Trevor Day

Staff / Personnel

Mr. Larry Johnston, research officer,
Legislative Research Service

Mr. Peter Sibenik, procedural clerk,
Journals and Procedural Research Branch