STANDING COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND SOCIAL POLICY
COMITÉ PERMANENT DE LA JUSTICE ET DES AFFAIRES SOCIALES
Wednesday 27 June 2001 Mercredi 27 juin 2001
Wednesday 27 June 2001 Mercredi 27 juin 2001
The committee met at 0900 in committee room 2.
MPP
COMPENSATION REFORM ACT
(ARM'S LENGTH PROCESS), 2001
LOI DE 2001 PORTANT RÉFORME
DE LA RÉTRIBUTION DES DÉPUTÉS
(PROCESSUS SANS LIEN
DE DÉPENDANCE)
Consideration of Bill 82, An Act to amend the Legislative Assembly Act to provide an arm's length process to determine members' compensation / Projet de loi 82, Loi modifiant la Loi sur l'Assemblée législative pour établir un processus sans lien de dépendance permettant de fixer la rétribution des députés.
The Chair (Mr Toby Barrett): Good morning, everyone. It is now 9 o'clock. I welcome everyone to this regular meeting of the standing committee on justice and social policy. Our agenda item is to consider clause-by-clause --
Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): On a point of order, Mr Chair.
The Chair: I'll just finish reading this, sir -- Bill 82, An Act to amend the Legislative Assembly Act to provide an arm's length process to determine members' compensation. I will put the question, but I have a point of order from Mr Kormos.
Mr Kormos: I have an amendment to move.
The Chair: That's not a point of order. I can read in part the standing orders that would explain that, if you wish, and I can refer specifically to amendments: "... the standing committee on justice and social policy shall be authorized to meet at 9 am on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 for clause-by-clause consideration of the bill;
"That, at 9 am on this day, the Chair shall put every question necessary to dispose of this stage of the bill without further debate or amendment...."
Mr Kormos: I'm sorry. That means that --
The Chair: Is this a point of order?
Mr Kormos: I wanted to make it clear that the time allocation motion precludes me from moving any amendments. Is that correct?
The Chair: That's not a point of order. I did read the standing order. I think everyone understands that. There is no debate and no amendment.
Mr Kormos: On a point of order, Mr Chair: A committee meeting with no debate is hardly a committee meeting. I submit to you that there is an as-of-right opportunity for members to debate bills before a committee.
The Chair: That's not a point of order, and I might mention as well that on a point of order there's no debate required either.
Mr Kormos: Is there debate permitted?
The Chair: Is that a point of order, Mr Kormos?
Mr Kormos: Chair, is debate permitted?
The Chair: What's the rest of that sentence?
Mr Kormos: Is debate permitted?
The Chair: No.
Mr Kormos: Thank you, Chair.
The Chair: I will now put the question on section 1.
Mr Kormos: Recorded vote.
The Chair: I hear a request for a recorded vote. Accordingly, section 1 will be deferred. I will now put the question on section 2.
Mr Kormos: Recorded vote.
The Chair: A recorded vote. Section 2 is deferred. I may suggest to the committee, is there a request that all the votes be recorded votes?
Mr Kormos: Yes, sir.
The Chair: OK. All votes will be recorded votes.
We will now refer back to section 1 of the bill, and I will put the question yet again. I'll just pause for a moment. We have a sub-issue to deal with.
Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands): On a point of order, Mr Chairman: It was very difficult to find this committee room this morning. The usual signs that are posted outside the doors telling you that there's a committee --
The Chair: That's not a point of order.
Mr Gerretsen: That's not a point of order, not knowing where the meeting is going to be held?
The Chair: That's not a point of order.
Mr Garry J. Guzzo (Ottawa West-Nepean): On a point of privilege, Mr Chair: When you come from a big town like Kingston, getting around is difficult.
Mr Gerretsen: Oh, go back to Ottawa.
The Chair: I repeat, I shall now put the question to section 1. Shall section 1 carry?
AYES
Beaubien, Bryant, DeFaria, Gerretsen, Guzzo, Wettlaufer.
NAYS
Kormos.
The Chair: I declare section 1 carried.
Section 2: Shall section 2 carry?
AYES
Beaubien, Bryant, DeFaria, Gerretsen, Guzzo, Wettlaufer.
NAYS
Kormos.
The Chair: I declare section 2 carried.
Section 3: Shall section 3 carry?
AYES
Beaubien, Bryant, DeFaria, Gerretsen, Guzzo, Wettlaufer.
NAYS
Kormos.
The Chair: I declare section 3 carried.
Section 4: Shall section 4 carry?
AYES
Beaubien, Bryant, DeFaria, Gerretsen, Guzzo, Wettlaufer.
NAYS
Kormos.
The Chair: Section 5: Shall section 5 carry?
AYES
Beaubien, Bryant, DeFaria, Gerretsen, Guzzo, Wettlaufer.
NAYS
Kormos.
The Chair: I declare section 5 carried.
Shall the long title of the bill carry?
Mr Kormos: Recorded vote.
The Chair: Yet again, a recorded vote.
AYES
Beaubien, Bryant, DeFaria, Gerretsen, Guzzo, Wettlaufer.
NAYS
Kormos.
The Chair: The long title of the bill carries.
I will pose the next question: Shall Bill 82 carry?
Mr Kormos: Recorded vote.
The Chair: We'll have a recorded vote. Shall this motion carry?
AYES
Beaubien, Bryant, DeFaria, Gerretsen, Guzzo, Wettlaufer.
NAYS
Kormos.
The Chair: Bill 82 carries.
Final question: Shall I report the bill to the House?
Mr Kormos: Recorded vote.
The Chair: There's a request for a recorded vote. Shall I report the bill to the House?
AYES
Beaubien, Bryant, DeFaria, Gerretsen, Guzzo, Wettlaufer.
NAYS
Kormos.
The Chair: I shall report this bill to the House.
Mr Gerretsen: On a point of order, Mr Chair: Before you declare the proceedings closed, I just want to go on the record as totally disagreeing with the process in which this has been handled; not with your chairmanship, which I think has been very well-handled, but the fact that we come to committee and can't even discuss a bill, I think, is an absolutely undemocratic way of handling it.
The Chair: For the record, that's not a point of order.
Thank you, committee members. This committee is adjourned.
The committee adjourned at 0908.
CONTENTS
Wednesday 27 June 2001
MPP Compensation Reform Act
(Arm's Length Process), 2001, Bill 82,
Mr Tsubouchi / Loi de 2001 portant réforme de la
rétribution des députés
(processus sans lien de dépendance), projet de loi 82, M.
Tsubouchi J-83
STANDING COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND SOCIAL POLICY
Chair / Présidente
Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant PC)
Vice-Chair / Vice-Président
Mr Carl DeFaria (Mississauga East / -Est PC)
Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant PC)
Mr Marcel Beaubien (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex PC)
Mr Michael Bryant (St Paul's L)
Mr Carl DeFaria (Mississauga East / -Est PC)
Mr Garry J. Guzzo (Ottawa West-Nepean / Ottawa-Ouest-Nepean PC)
Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre / -Centre ND)
Mrs Lyn McLeod (Thunder Bay-Atikokan L)
Mrs Tina R. Molinari (Thornhill PC)
Substitutions / Membres remplaçants
Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands / Kingston et les îles L)
Mr Wayne Wettlaufer (Kitchener Centre / -Centre PC)
Clerk / Greffier
Mr Tom Prins