Chair /
Président
Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines L)
Vice-Chair / Vice-Président
Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex L)
Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines L)
Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex L)
Mrs Leona Dombrowsky (Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington
L)
Mr Bert Johnson (Perth-Middlesex PC)
Mr Morley Kells (Etobicoke-Lakeshore PC)
Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie ND)
Mr Joseph Spina (Brampton Centre / -Centre PC)
Mr Bob Wood (London West / -Ouest PC)
Substitutions / Membres remplaçants
Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands / Kingston et les
îles L)
Mr Garry J. Guzzo (Ottawa West-Nepean / Ottawa-Ouest-Nepean
PC)
Mr Dave Levac (Brant L)
Clerk / Greffier
Mr Douglas Arnott
Staff / Personnel
Mr David Pond, research officer, Research and Information
Services
The committee met at 1004 in room 228.
SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT
Clerk of the Committee
(Mr Douglas Arnott): Honourable members, in the absence
of the Chair of the committee and the Vice-Chair, it is my
responsibility to call upon you to elect an Acting Chair of the
committee for this meeting. Are there any nominations?
Mrs Leona Dombrowsky
(Hastings-Frontenac-Lennox and Addington): I would like
to nominate Mr Gerretsen.
Clerk of the
Committee: Are there any further nominations? There
being no further nominations, I declare nominations closed and Mr
Gerretsen duly elected Acting Chair of this meeting.
The Acting Chair (Mr
John Gerretsen): Thank you very much for the confidence
that's shown to me by the entire committee to elect me
unanimously to this post. I'll put you all on my Christmas card
list.
Mr Joseph Spina
(Brampton Centre): I thought we were already there.
The Acting
Chair: First, we have the report of the subcommittee on
committee business dated March 30.
Mr Bob Wood (London
West): I move its adoption, Mr Chair.
The Acting
Chair: Mr Wood moves its adoption. Any discussion at
all?
All those in favour? Carried
unanimously.
I understand a motion is
required to extend the 30-day deadline with respect to two or
three individuals on this list.
Mr Wood: I
understand the individuals are Mr Emo and Dr Quinsey.
The Acting
Chair: I'm sorry; there's one on the back as well, Mr
Hugh Nichol.
Mr Wood: OK.
I move that the deadline for consideration of Mr Emo, Dr Quinsey
and Mr Nichol be extended by 30 days.
The Acting
Chair: Any further comments?
All in favour? Opposed?
Carried.
INTENDED APPOINTMENTS
DONALD GRANGER
Review of intended
appointment, selected by official opposition party: Donald
Granger, intended appointee as member, Assessment Review
Board.
The Acting
Chair: The first item of business is the selection of
Donald R. Granger, an intended appointee as member of the
Assessment Review Board. This is a selection of the official
opposition.
Mr Granger, are you here?
Would you like to come to the table, please. Thank you very much
for attending this morning.
Mr Donald
Granger: Thank you very much for having me, Mr
Chairman.
The Acting
Chair: Half an hour has been set aside to review this
appointment, and we'll start with any opening statement that you
may have at this time.
Mr Granger:
My name is Don Granger, and for the benefit of the members I
should point out that this is a cross-appointment. In fact, I
have been sitting as a member of the Ontario Municipal Board
since November 1997 and had provided my name to the chair to be
willing to accept a cross-appointment to assist with the workload
at the Assessment Review Board.
I should point out that prior
to being appointed to the Ontario Municipal Board, which has been
a full-time commitment, I served as a full-time college professor
in the municipal planning and development program at Mohawk
College for 19 years. I am a registered professional planner in
Ontario. I'd like to think that I have an intimate knowledge of
the planning and development realm within the province and have
practised in that capacity since 1971. I have also been employed
as a conservation planner and as a planning consultant through
the years. That's a bit of my professional background.
I also served a tour of duty
in municipal politics. I was elected deputy mayor of the town of
Flamboro and regional councillor in Hamilton-Wentworth for the
term 1988 through 1991, and I was acclaimed mayor of the town of
Flamboro for the term 1991 through 1994. During that political
tenure, I chaired the affordable housing task force for the
region of Hamilton-Wentworth. The most recent work that I've done
on behalf of the municipality in Hamilton-Wentworth is that I
co-chaired the constituent assembly on the municipal government
system in Hamilton-Wentworth. That was a joint effort funded
between the region of Hamilton-Wentworth and the province of
Ontario.
I have been a long-standing
member of the Royal Botanical Gardens and served a term as
president of the Royal Botanical Gardens.
I should also point out that I have completed the
Society of Ontario Adjudicators and Regulators course through the
SOAR organization in preparation for my work on the Ontario
Municipal Board and look forward to serving on the Assessment
Review Board. I should also point out that I have convened 49
pre-1998 assessment that were appeals before the Ontario
Municipal Board, so I feel fairly confident in the work that's
needed. To date, having undertaken over 250 hearings, there have
been no successful leaves to appeal, there have been no judicial
reviews, or no successful reviews of any of the hearings that I
have presided over. I think that would be my-
1010
The Acting
Chair: OK. Thank you very much. How long have you been
on the Ontario Municipal Board?
Mr Granger:
I was appointed November 3, 1997.
The Acting
Chair: Thank you. We'll start with the official
opposition, and we have eight minutes for questioning for each
caucus. Mr Levac?
Mr Dave Levac
(Brant): Do I have a question?
The Acting
Chair: Yes.
Mr Levac: I
do. Thank you very much for coming today. Just a short question
about why. Tell me a little bit about the passion that you want
to bring to the job.
Mr Granger:
With respect to the Assessment Review Board, I have undertaken
hearings in my capacity as a member of the Ontario Municipal
Board. I quite enjoyed the variety and the dynamic that's
involved. I do have a fair bit of experience in chairing
proceedings and really find the work very stimulating.
As you can see through the
course of my career, it's always been one of service. The matter
of assessment in Ontario is a very important matter and I believe
it deserves good judgment. I am very happy to make my experience
available in that capacity to serve.
Mr Levac:
Thank you very much.
Mrs
Dombrowsky: Mr Granger, you've indicated that your
experience has been as chair, that you served in the role as
chair of the OMB.
Mr Granger:
Not with the Ontario Municipal Board, no. I was speaking about my
experience generally of chairing committees and proceedings in my
political life as mayor and as deputy mayor, as regional
councillor and as chair of some task forces, which included
affordable housing and government review.
Mrs
Dombrowsky: I see. So you did not act in the capacity of
chair of the OMB.
Mr Granger:
I should say that as a member of the Ontario Municipal Board, we
chair the hearings, so every day I'm really acting in the
capacity of a chair to proceedings that are before the board. So
it's dealing with the parties and hearing evidence and ultimately
being responsible for the decision that follows from that
proceeding.
Mrs
Dombrowsky: You're speaking to the former chair of a
school board, so I'm somewhat familiar with the term "chair."
Because you've indicated your interest to serve in the role as
chair, is that what you expect you will be doing on the
assessment board? Would that be your role, or would you be a
member of the assessment board?
Mr Granger:
I would be a member of the Assessment Review Board; I would be
chairing the hearings. I understand the confusion. I don't
aspire, at this point, to become the chair of the Assessment
Review Board, but I do expect to utilize my background and
experience to be able to successfully chair the hearings.
Mrs
Dombrowsky: OK. I thank you for that clarification, Mr
Granger. I wasn't sure. I don't believe the appointment is yet
official, and you made some statements that indicated to me that
maybe you would be serving in a chair role. There would be a
chair of the assessment board. Is that person elected among the
members or is that person appointed?
Mr Granger:
No, the chair is appointed. The present chair is also my chair at
the Ontario Municipal Board. That's Mr Douglas Colborne. He has
been jointly appointed as chair to the Ontario Municipal Board as
well as to the Assessment Review Board, so I'm quite familiar and
have had very positive dealings with the chair of that board.
Mrs
Dombrowsky: All right. Thank you.
The Acting
Chair: Anyone else? We still have a few minutes left.
No?
Mr Levac: We
still have a few minutes left?
The Acting
Chair: Yes.
Mr Levac: I
don't want to ask a question for the sake of asking a question.
I'm satisfied.
The Acting
Chair: Mr Martin.
Mr Tony Martin (Sault
Ste Marie): There is, it seems to me, quite a backlog
before the board that you're about to be appointed to in terms of
work to be done, and of course that affects the ability of
municipalities to get on with doing what they need to do. What
approach or tack would you bring to this position that would help
resolve that very difficult problem?
Mr Granger:
I think all that I can offer as one member of the Assessment
Review Board is my commitment to be available, to be scheduled as
fully as possible and to render decisions expeditiously, to the
best of my ability.
Mr Martin:
It seems there is also the problem before the board of trying to
deal with the issue of shifting demographics and also shifting
investment in different kinds of property. For example, the value
of property in the old city of Toronto is rising at a tremendous
rate while the value of property in the suburbs, even though
rising, isn't quite keeping pace, and out of that property tax
base each is expected to pay for the services that are required.
I would suggest this is going to cause quite a difficulty,
particularly to the city of Toronto as it tries to live up to its
commitment not to raise taxes on any of the sectors that
contribute to the fund of money that's used to pay for
services.
In your looking ahead to
being appointed to this board, do you have any suggestion as to
how we might resolve that or how this board might be helpful in
dealing with that challenge?
Mr Granger: I think as a sitting
member, we do our best to communicate through the chair where we
see obvious potential for improvement. I can't honestly say that
at this stage I can offer any concrete suggestion until I'm
dealing with a new system. You can appreciate that the appeals I
had experienced were prior to the new system of assessment that
we have here in Ontario. It goes without saying that fairness
should be inherent in that system and that the decisions of the
board-my experience in the past has been that we seek that
fairness and equitableness within the system itself. Ultimately
the system has to be formulated by the powers that be. As an
adjudicator, it's our responsibility to deal with the legislation
that is in effect. We're bound by the statutes, but where the
statutes ask for fairness and equity, certainly I take that as a
very serious responsibility, to ensure that that occurs, based on
the evidence that is put before us in that role as an
adjudicator.
Mr Martin:
One of the nice things about Toronto is the fact that there are
lots of people living downtown and there's lots of movement and
activity. I think, personally, it lends to a sense of safety and
comfort and is one of the reasons that a lot of people come to
visit here. First of all, the market for family residences is
strongest in the old city of Toronto but the value is going up by
33%, compared to the suburbs, where it's increasing at a rate of
about 18%. This seems to me to present a difficulty and could in
the long run end in a shift that would move us away from that
very palatable reality. It's this government's intention to let
the market decide as much as possible on lots of these issues.
What would your position be?
Mr Granger:
Again, I don't want to give you a personal opinion with respect
to the legislation that's in place. I have to be careful, as an
adjudicator, to apply the statute, and where that statute gives
latitude in terms of determining fairness and equity, we attempt
to do that to the best of our ability.
I'm not aware of the
statistics you're referring to so it's difficult for me to
present a position to you except to say that I can't imagine
anyone disputing that ultimately the system we arrive at should
be a fair system.
Mr Martin:
Some of my colleagues across the way will understand when I say
that I have to ask these questions now.
Mr Granger:
I understand.
Mr Martin:
Have you ever been or are you now a member of the Progressive
Conservative Party?
Mr Granger:
I was active with the Progressive Conservative Party through the
early 1980s, prior to getting involved in municipal politics. As
a good municipal politician, of course, I tried to engender some
neutrality. In fact, during my political experience I have seen
three different provincial governments and have always felt that
I was able to co-operate with all. But yes, during that period I
was very active with both the provincial and the federal
associations in the Flamborough-Hamilton-Wentworth area. To date,
I continue to be a life member of the Progressive Conservative
Party in Ontario.
Mr Martin:
Were you active in the last provincial election?
Mr Granger:
No. As an adjudicator and due to my appointment with the Ontario
Municipal Board, I was restricted from taking any active role in
the election, and I certainly take that responsibility very
seriously.
Mr Martin:
Thank you very much.
The Acting
Chair: Any of the government members?
Mr Wood:
We'll waive our time, Mr Chair.
The Acting
Chair: Then I would ask the committee for a motion of
concurrence with respect to the appointment.
Mr Wood: So
moved.
The Acting
Chair: Moved by Mr Wood. Any further discussion? All
those in favour? Opposed? Carried unanimously.
