STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS
COMITÉ PERMANENT DES FINANCES ET DES AFFAIRES ÉCONOMIQUES
Wednesday 1 December 2004 Mercredi 1er décembre 2004
The committee met at 0900 in committee room 1.
SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT
The Chair (Mr Pat Hoy): The standing committee on finance and economic affairs will please come to order. The first order of business this morning would be to have the report of the subcommittee read, and that will explain why we are here this morning as well.
Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): Mr Chairman, I have a motion to ask for the approval of the subcommittee report, and I'll read it into the record, if I can do so.
Your subcommittee met on Thursday, November 25, 2004, to consider the method of proceeding on Bill 73, An Act to enhance the safety of children and youth on Ontario's roads, and recommends the following:
(1) That the committee meet in Toronto on Wednesday, December 1, 2004, for the purpose of holding public hearings and clause-by-clause consideration on Bill 73.
(2) That the committee clerk, with the authorization of the Chair, post information regarding the hearings on the Ontario parliamentary channel and the committee's Web site.
(3) That interested parties who wish to be considered to make an oral presentation contact the committee clerk by 5 pm on Monday, November 29, 2004.
(4) That the committee clerk provide the subcommittee members with a list of requests to appear by 10 am on Tuesday, November 30, 2004.
(5) That the subcommittee members determine whether to schedule public hearings on the morning of Wednesday, December 1, 2004, based on their review of the list of requests, and that they so advise the committee clerk by 12 noon on Tuesday, November 30, 2004.
(6) That individuals be offered 10 minutes and groups be offered 20 minutes for their presentation.
(7) That the deadline for written submissions be 5 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2004.
(8) That the deadline for filing amendments with the committee clerk on Bill 73 be 5 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2004.
(9) That the committee commence clause-by-clause consideration of Bill 73 no later than the afternoon of Wednesday, December 1, 2004, following routine proceedings.
(10) That the clerk of the committee, in consultation with the Chair, be authorized, prior to the adoption of the report of the subcommittee, to commence making any preliminary arrangements necessary to facilitate the committee's proceedings.
I so move the adoption of the report.
The Chair: Any comment? All in favour? Carried.
HIGHWAY TRAFFIC STATUTE
LAW AMENDMENT ACT
(CHILD AND YOUTH SAFETY), 2004
LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT
DES LOIS EN CE QUI CONCERNE
LE CODE DE LA ROUTE
(SÉCURITÉ DES ENFANTS
ET DES JEUNES)
Consideration of Bill 73, An Act to enhance the safety of children and youth on Ontario's roads / Projet de loi 73, Loi visant à accroître la sécurité des enfants et des jeunes sur les routes de l'Ontario.
The Chair: The committee will begin clause-by-clause consideration of Bill 73. Are there any comments, questions or amendments, and, if so, to which sections?
Mr Colle: I move adoption of the clauses except for one amendment that I have. I have one amendment to Bill 73, An Act to enhance the safety of children and youth on Ontario's roads, a motion to be moved in committee that subsection --
The Chair: Mr Colle, we'll move that at the appropriate time. We're moving from section 1 onward, and we'll get to you when that time comes.
Any other comments? Hearing none, shall sections 1 through 5 carry? All in favour? Carried.
Any amendments to section 6?
Mr Colle: I have one amendment to section 6, a government motion amendment, subsection 6(2) of the bill, clause 207(2)(b) of the Highway Traffic Act. I move that subsection 6(2) of the bill be struck out.
Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): I would just ask Mr Colle to explain the effect of the amendment.
Mr Colle: I think it's just a technical amendment; that's what it is. That's my information, unless the parliamentary assistant has more information on that.
Mr Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): The motion is to amend section 207(2)(b) of the HTA, which sets out the offences for which the owner cannot be charged. We need to amend this section to take out the offence of passing a stopped school bus.
When the bill was drafted, there were two alternative scenarios built into it, because of our uncertainty over whether red-light cameras would be made permanent. One scenario had the offence of not stopping at a red light removed from that section, for example, in the belief that the red-light camera would be permanent and we would need to be able to charge the owner. The second left it in; for example, no red-light camera and therefore only the driver would need to be charged through traditional enforcement. So really this was in the bill, and it is recommended that we remove that subsection.
The Chair: Comment? Hearing none, all in favour?
Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): Just give me a second. So all of subsection 6(2) is being struck out? OK. I see what you're doing. Thank you.
The Chair: Comment? All in favour?
Mr Bisson: Just quickly. What the heck? When I get an opportunity to say something, why not take the opportunity?
It was interesting, because M. Lalonde, as PA, along with everybody else, would have been lobbied by the police chiefs who were here yesterday. One of the things we heard quite clearly on the issue of the red-light cameras, which is somewhat associated with this, is that the effectiveness of those things is not as good as we originally thought. The fact that people know they're there slows down one intersection, but it doesn't do anything to curb driving habits other than at that one intersection where people know the camera is located. I think it will be interesting to see what position the government takes when it comes to how it moves forward on the rest of this electronic package of photo radar, to see where you're going. That will be an interesting debate. I just wanted to put that on the record.
Mr Colle: If I could just comment, Mr Chairman?
Mr Bisson: Of course, Mr Colle.
Mr Colle: Just briefly. Being very involved with the red-light camera, the original intent of the red-light camera was that each municipality has notorious collision intersections. We all have them in our communities and neighbourhoods. It was intended to essentially make those safer. Those were the worst, and that's why. You can't solve all the problems at every intersection, but it was intended for those critical ones where people were getting T-boned on a regular basis, and we all know where they are in all our communities.
Mr Bisson: Just from a broader policy issue, the issue of how we make drivers change their bad driving habits, that's what I was talking to. I think we all recognize that if I know there's a red-light camera at intersection X, I'll certainly not blow the intersection, because I don't want to get caught. But how you change people's driving habits is by not knowing when you're going to get caught, so that you don't try it in the first place. That's just the point I was making. I think you understand.
The other thing is -- and I think Mr Colle will probably want to comment -- about how this technology is not working on Highway 407. I'm sure you'd want to say something about that.
Mr Colle: Not at this time.
Mr Bisson: Oh, come on, Michael.
Mr Wilson: We're waiting with bated breath for your amendment on Highway 407.
The Chair: Mr Colle has moved an amendment. All in favour? Carried.
Shall section 6, as amended, carry? Carried.
Shall sections 7 through 10 carry? Carried.
Shall the title of the bill carry? Carried.
Shall Bill 73, as amended, carry? Carried.
Shall I report the bill, as amended, to the House? Carried.
Mr Wilson: Just one comment, Mr Chair. For the record, we're clear that nobody wanted to appear before the committee; no one responded?
The Chair: That's correct.
Mr Colle: It was publicized.
The Chair: The committee is adjourned.
The committee adjourned at 0908.
CONTENTS
Wednesday 1 December 2004
Subcommittee report F-1119
Highway Traffic Statute Law
Amendment Act (Child and Youth Safety), 2004,
Bill 73, Mr Takhar / Loi de 2004 modifiant des lois en ce
qui concerne le Code
de la route (sécurité des enfants et des jeunes), projet
de loi 73, M. Takhar F-1119
STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND ECONOMIC AFFAIRS
Chair / Président
Mr Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex L)
Vice-Chair / Vice-Président
Mr John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex L)
Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant PC)
Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence L)
Mr Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex L)
Ms Judy Marsales (Hamilton West / Hamilton-Ouest L)
Mr Phil McNeely (Ottawa-Orléans L)
Mrs Carol Mitchell (Huron-Bruce L)
Mr John O'Toole (Durham PC)
Mr Michael Prue (Beaches-East York / Beaches-York-Est ND)
Mr John Wilkinson (Perth-Middlesex L)
Substitutions / Membres remplaçants
Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay / Timmins-Baie James ND)
Mr Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell L)
Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey PC)
Clerk / Greffier
Mr Trevor Day
Staff / Personnel
Ms Susan Klein, legislative counsel