The committee met at 0900 in committee room 1.

Keeping Ontario Open for Business Act, 2022 Loi de 2022 visant à ce que l’Ontario reste ouvert aux affaires

Consideration of the following bill:

Bill 100, An Act to enact legislation to protect access to certain transportation infrastructure / Projet de loi 100, Loi édictant une loi pour protéger l’accès à certaines infrastructures de transport.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Good morning, everyone. The Standing Committee on Justice Policy is now in order and in session. We’re here today to discuss clause-by-clause consideration of Bill 100, An Act to enact legislation to protect access to certain transportation infrastructure. For your information, today we are joined by Eric Chamney—I pronounced that right, I hope—from the office of legislative counsel, as well as staff from Hansard, and broadcast and recording.

The Clerk has distributed the amendment packages to all members and staff electronically. I presume they all have it. If any member indicates that they wish to move additional amendments at this particular time, we will take a short recess to allow the member to consult with legislative counsel. If not, we will proceed. Seeing none, are there any questions before we begin? Ms. Hogarth?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: Mr. Chair, I’d like to move a motion.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Go ahead.

Ms. Christine Hogarth: I move that when the committee recess at 10:15 a.m., it shall meet again from 3 p.m. until 6 p.m. and from 6:30 p.m. until midnight today for consideration of Bill 100 or committee business.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Thank you very much. The members have heard the motion as presented. Any discussion? Seeing none, all in favour? Opposed? Carried.

Now we will go to the bill before us. As a note, I will just follow the process as follows, so that we all are on the same wavelength: On each section or schedule, I will ask if there’s any debate, then I will ask if the members are ready to vote, and then I shall ask, should the section carry? I will simply ask for either your approval or your opposition, and I will suggest at that point that it is either carried or lost.

Thank you very kindly. We will now proceed with section 1. Is there any debate on section 1? Seeing none, are the members ready to vote? Fine. Shall section 1 carry? All in favour?

Mr. Gurratan Singh: Just a quick note—

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Yes?

Mr. Gurratan Singh: I just want to make sure: You do have—there is one NDP amendment.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Yes, it is coming up in the next section.

Mr. Gurratan Singh: In the next section, okay.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): And opposed? Carried.

We have an addition now to the bill—as a matter of fact, I’ll ask Mr. Singh, would you like to move your motion?

Mr. Gurratan Singh: Yes. Thank you, Chair. I have a motion to be moved. I move that section 1.1 be added to the bill:


“1.1 Nothing in this act prevents peaceful protests or labour demonstrations, such as picketing, or other efforts by workers to improve their wages or working conditions.”

The major concern we want to ensure is included in this piece of legislation is that organizations like labour groups, Indigenous groups, groups that have legitimate concerns, not have any of their peaceful demonstrations be impacted in any way by this legislation.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Further discussion? Seeing none, are we ready to vote? All in favour? All opposed? Lost.

We’ll now head on to section 2, colleagues. I believe we have an amendment to section 2. Madame Collard, please?

Mme Lucille Collard: I move that section 2 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:


“(3.1) Subsection (1) does not apply with respect to an impediment that falls short of being a total obstruction and that arises in connection with a protest respecting the assertion of Indigenous rights or labour rights.”

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Further debate? Further comment? Please go ahead, Madame Collard.

Mme Lucille Collard: If I can explain; I think that the wording is self-explanatory. It clearly protects the rights of Indigenous workers, and that’s something that we’ve heard as a consistent concern over the public hearings. I think even the minister acknowledged that this was a good point that was raised during the questions and answers when she came before us. I just think it’s important to have clear wording for the future that these groups wouldn’t be prevented from exercising their legal rights.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Further comment? Mr. Singh, please.

Mr. Gurratan Singh: Just to add on, connected to my earlier submissions, it’s important that groups like Indigenous groups and labour groups are able to still peacefully demonstrate. We want to ensure that those kinds of actions are not negatively impacted by this legislation.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Further discussion? Seeing none, we’ll call for a vote on the issue. All in favour of the amendment by Madame Collard? Opposed? Lost.

We will vote on the whole section right now. Shall section 2 carry? All in favour? Opposed? Carried.

Okay, colleagues, I see there are no amendments on sections 3 to 21. We can be a short time or a long time. Does the committee wish to bundle them together today? All in favour? All opposed? Okay, then we will bundle. We will go to sections 3 to 21, then. All in favour of sections 3 to 21? All opposed? Carried.

Colleagues, thank you very kindly for your co-operation in moving forward on this bill today. We will now go to the formalities of the bill, which we always do at the end of every proposed legislation.

This is An Act to enact legislation to protect access to certain transportation infrastructure. Shall the title of the bill carry? All in favour? Opposed? Carried.

Shall Bill 100 carry? All those in favour? All those opposed? Carried.

Shall I report the bill to the House? Carried; all in favour.

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Thushitha Kobikrishna): You do still have to ask, “All those in favour? All those opposed?”

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Oh, I do have to say it every time? Okay. Thank you. Then I will ask: All in favour? Shall the bill, then, be reported to the House?


The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Yes, Ms. Hogarth?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: I have another motion, if this is the appropriate time.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Considering other business?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: Considering other business.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Okay. Go ahead, please.

Ms. Christine Hogarth: I move that the committee enter closed session for the purpose of organizing committee business.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Okay. All in favour? A comment? Mr. Singh, please.

Mr. Gurratan Singh: Yes, thank you, Chair. As has been our position from the beginning, we feel this is an important piece of legislation that needs to have the ability for the public to know the conversation that’s going on pertaining to this piece of legislation. As always, this is an open institution. Our democracy is strengthened from open conversations, so I would strongly put forth submissions that the conversation should not be moved to closed and instead we have them in the purview of an open domain.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Thank you, Mr. Singh. Further debate? Yes, Ms. Hogarth.

Ms. Christine Hogarth: This is committee business, so it’s always done, usually, in closed by the subcommittee level, so we would like to have it continue—doing it in closed. This is nothing new.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Further debate? Seeing none, I’ll call the vote. All in favour? All opposed? Carried.

Just a small recess before we go into closed session, just so that we get everything in order.

The committee recessed at 0912 and later continued in closed session, and resumed at 1500.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Good afternoon, colleagues. Welcome again. The Standing Committee on Justice Policy will now come to order. We are here, of course, for hearings on Bill 78, An Act to amend the Police Services Act. Are there any questions before we begin?

Police Services Amendment Act, 2022 Loi de 2022 modifiant la Loi sur les services policiers

Consideration of the following bill:

Bill 78, An Act to amend the Police Services Act / Projet de loi 78, Loi modifiant la Loi sur les services policiers.

Mr. Mike Harris

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Seeing none, I will call on the member for Kitchener–Conestoga, MPP Mike Harris. You will have 10 minutes to make an opening statement, followed by 20 minutes of questions from the members of the committee. The questions will be divided into one round only, with seven and a half minutes for the government members, seven and a half minutes for the official opposition, and five minutes for the independent member. I will give reminders of the time during the presentations, and I’ll give you a one-minute time warning, just to give you an idea of where you’re at with everything.

Mr. Harris, without ado, the floor is yours, sir.

Mr. Mike Harris: Thank you very much, Chair. Good afternoon to all the committee members here today. I’m very pleased to give my sponsor deputation on Bill 78, An Act to amend the Police Services Act, 2022. I’m eager to speak to the merits of this bill and why it’s crucial and, of course, timely for the Legislature to pass this bill, given the current circumstances that we face here in the province.

Before I go on, for the record, I want to thank all of our police services across Ontario and all of our first responders and front-line health care and essential workers for everything that they have done to keep this province moving forward through the challenges we’ve faced over the past couple of years.

If passed, Bill 78 would allow officers serving with municipal or First Nations police services to qualify for the Queen’s Commission. The commission is an honour currently only bestowed upon exceptional officers in the Ontario Provincial Police service. The purpose of this bill is to ultimately honour and reward those officers who go above and beyond in performing their duties in serving their communities.

I was very thankful for the official opposition’s support during second reading of this bill. In particular, I’m very pleased to see the member from Algoma–Manitoulin here today, because I’m about to quote him, Chair.

Mr. Michael Mantha: Listen, everybody. Pay attention.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): That’s an order.

Mr. Mike Harris: Do you know what? Maybe we’ll skip through a couple of the quotes, just in the interest of time. But I did want to thank him for the very thoughtful comments he made during second reading.

I think one of the key points that MPP Mantha wanted to get across during debate was that police officers do more than just police their communities. He made reference to a lot of people volunteering their time. They might be the hockey coach or—I think he even mentioned the martial arts instructor during debate. So I think it’s really important that we think a little bit outside the box when it comes to our first responders and police officers, because they really are doing more than just policing their communities. I think it’s really important that we highlight that, and I want to thank him for doing that.

We see the words “To Serve and Protect” on police vehicles here in Toronto and in other jurisdictions across the province. Those words describe what the police services do in very simple terms, but those words come with impact and, of course, with intent. The service and protection of our communities at the municipal level is no small task, as we all know, whether that’s taking place right here in—I’ve got “Ontario’s largest city” in my remarks, but it’s actually the fourth-largest city in North America now, if we can believe that, where, quite literally, anything can happen on any given day, or in rural townships. There is so much to be aware of within a community and so much ground to cover in our rural areas of this province.

Service is truly at the heart of what I believe compels a person to become a police officer in the first place, and that is why Bill 78 seeks to honour those people.

I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the comments made by our government colleague the member for Aurora–Oak Ridges–Richmond Hill as well. He took the time out of his debate to acknowledge an incredible initiative undertaken by the York Regional Police service. He spoke about the Holiday Heroes campaign, where more than 120 members of York Regional Police volunteered over 1,000 hours to help 3,000 families and, in turn, to help more than 5,000 children. These officers assisted with handing out donations, visiting local schools, businesses and public spaces, along with assisting newcomers who have recently immigrated here to Canada. I think all of that is tremendous and impactful work that you don’t normally think of, as MPP Mantha said, when we talk about the day-to-day job that a police officer undertakes. Because police work is clearly so much more than just patrolling the streets and answering countless emergency calls—not that those things aren’t vital to our communities. I just want to be clear about all aspects of the service and work our police undertake in our communities. It’s very important work, and we really do need to honour the things that they do.

The member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound also spoke in support and said something that was very fitting, and it’s something that I don’t think we really think about all that often when we talk about our police services here in the province—and, quite frankly, any other first responder. To quote him: “These people are often running into danger, when we’re running out.” This sentiment comes up time and time again. I think it’s really important given everything that’s happening now, especially over the last little while. We’ve seen the protests in Ottawa and a little bit of, maybe, disdain or hatred towards some of our police services and some of the tough things that they had to do through the pandemic. I think that’s why it’s really important that we get this bill passed now, to be able to boost morale and honour those people that are providing these exceptional services in our community.

I want to quickly touch on some of the notable stakeholders that we’ve had reach out and be very supportive of this bill. Of course, in the North Bay Police Service where I grew up, I have a great relationship with Chief Tod there and many of the officers I actually went to school with, which is kind of neat, to be able to see them out there doing business in the community. Of course, Waterloo Regional Police Service and Chief Larkin, the Police Association of Ontario, the president of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, the Durham Regional Police Service and Six Nations Police Service were very supportive of this bill, as well as the Brantford Police Service, who we got a great quote from this morning from Chief Davis, in respect to—I’ll just read it here for you.

Chief Davis is the chief of Brantford police and, I think, was one of the first Indigenous police officers—it might even be in Canada—to become a chief of police outside of their local First Nation’s police service. I had a great phone conversation back a few months ago while we were doing some of the consultation for this bill. I’ll just read this quote quickly for you here: “Officers servicing First Nations communities face unparalleled challenges daily, yet rarely see or garner the recognition that they deserve.” I think that, again, goes to the spirit of this bill: We really want to be able to not only bestow this honour upon police services that represent the province of Ontario or, technically, the crown, but anybody who does that duty in this province.

I can confidently say that the response has been very positive and supportive throughout the course of my outreach to these different police services. This legislation is pretty widely supported at this point. What I was touching on a little bit earlier is that this legislation also enhances morale for a team of individuals who often work in stressful and extremely challenging situations and who also serve our community in very meaningful ways. It just seems like common sense to move Bill 78 forward and give the remarkable people working in municipal and First Nations police services across Ontario the recognition that they deserve.

I do understand that there will be a couple of amendments that this bill is going to require as we move forward—just a couple of minor changes in legislation. I’m excited to see what those are going to look like. I’m really glad for that, to be honest, and I appreciate that the proposed amendments will keep the spirit of the intent of the original version of this bill but make sensible changes that provide for better consideration and inclusivity for all of the parties involved.

In conclusion, I’m very happy to be here today and thank you for taking the time to call this bill before committee. With that, Mr. Chair, we’ll open the floor up to some questions.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): We will now go to the one round of questioning for seven and a half minutes, and we will start with the official opposition. Mr. Mantha.

Mr. Michael Mantha: Well, I don’t know what the other side is going to do, but you’re not going to get any opposition from us on this particular bill. I can’t control what the other side does.

Listen, as you were talking—I have to share this story. I’m sorry; it’s going to take a little bit of my time. I’m going to tell you guys a story about a police officer. His name is Evan Tripp. Evan is a police officer out of Espanola. I haven’t met this police officer, but I’ve got to tell you the story of him, on social media. When we talk about police officers going out of their way and doing more for their community—this certain police officer was found playing with children in a water sprayer in somebody’s backyard, just running around with the kids. The amount of buzz that he created by—first, trying to identify him, because that was the challenge I put out to my constituents: “If you can identify this picture of this police officer that came on my social media, highlighting how good he is, as far as playing with these children in somebody’s backyard, he deserves a scroll.” I had prepared a scroll to have it delivered to the police officer.


These are just some of the things that our police officers do that nobody sees. We’re so easy to jump out in front of them when we see the negatives, but it’s so hard for us to go out and just say thank you.

How many times do we leave from this Legislature, just walking down the street—and we’ve seen, just recently, everything that had been going on with those police officers who were sitting there in their cruisers. How many of us took the time—bang, bang, bang—to say thank you? We don’t do that enough, because they do go over and above.

There’s another story, and this one is of a fallen police officer from Manitoulin Island, Constable Marc Hovingh. Manitoulin Island was completely plastered with blue hearts—it was the entire province. I remember that morning, when I left here, in Toronto, seeing a province gathering together—calice; sorry—in something that you have to say was love. Right? This police officer really did that for this entire province. To this day, we still see those blue hearts all over the place, on everybody’s front lawns on Manitoulin Island. The first police officer who actually showed up when that incident happened was a police officer from the United Chiefs and Councils of Mnidoo Mnising Anishnaabe police force, and they’re going to be included in this bill as well.

When you see the impacts that they bring to our community—you’re absolutely right; they do a lot more than just police. When they put that badge on, yes, they’re going to be the largest protectors of our rights, of our communities, of our system, of our daily lives. They’re the first ones to get on those tragic scenes. They’re the ones who deal with a lot of mental issues that we have no idea how to comprehend. They’re the first ones at a wreck. They’re the first ones at a house dispute, or whatever. Most of the time—particularly in my area, in northern Ontario—they know the individuals; like you said earlier, they either coach their kids at the arena or they’re instructing them at the next karate class.

So a big shout-out to you for bringing this forward. It’s long overdue. It’s a very good, timely bill to bring forward. It’s going to be a pleasure of mine to go back to Manitoulin Island to say that those who are on Wikwemikong Tribal Police Service, or if you’re with the Anishinabek police force or the Manitoulin and Mnidoo Mnising Anishnaabe police—there’s an opportunity for you to recognize one of your own.

I really don’t have a question for you. You did your homework. You did your outreach. Congratulations.

Mr. Mike Harris: You’re going to make me tear up too, Mike. You’re going to have two Mikes crying in the committee room; that might be a first.

Thank you. I know that you are a big supporter of our front-line workers; in particular, police. We’ve had many conversations over the last few years about it. Thank you for everything that you do up north, as well.

We’ve got, obviously, an election coming up, and all of us, I think, are in a bit of an interesting spot, where we’re all working hard in our ridings. You have done a great job, and it has been a pleasure getting to know you well over these last few years. We do go back and forth and we have a little bit of fun, but I think, at the end of the day, the spirit of what’s happening here today is what we can really achieve when we all work together. I’m excited for you to take this back home and I know that the folks up north will be happy to see it as well. Thank you, sir.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Thank you very much, Mr. Harris, and Mr. Mantha, thank you for your emotional and caring questions, sir.

Mr. Michael Mantha: I don’t know where the heck that came from. I’m not going to apologize for it—

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Please, never do.

Mr. Mike Harris: It’s much appreciated.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Okay, we’ll now go to the government side for seven and a half minutes. Yes, Mr. Pettapiece, please.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: Thanks, MPP Harris, for bringing this forward. I think you know that my son and his wife are police officers in Guelph. I met Chief Larkin when he was chief there, a few years ago now. I look at how long my kids have been on the police force, and they’re both in their 21st year. That makes me really feel old. But anyway, there were awards that municipal officers could get. They would get commendations for doing good work and all this type of thing, but so would OPP, and this is another award that they couldn’t qualify for. So this is really nice, and I think it will mean a lot to them.

One of the first things I did before I got elected, when I was a candidate with Tim Hudak, was attend a police funeral in Guelph. A young officer, she had only been on the force for two or three years and was attending an emergency call—it wasn’t a car accident, but it was something else—and lost control of her cruiser in snow and went under a bus and was killed. I don’t want to get into whose fault it was or anything else, because I don’t know. But she decided to take the risk and get there in a hurry, and unfortunately, she lost her life over it.

I went to the funeral, which was attended by thousands of officers. First responders of every kind were there. Again, as MPP Mantha said, we don’t really realize what they go through or what can happen to them in their line of duty. So I think this is very appropriate.

I see it’s the Queen’s Commission. I guess, just for clarification, every officer can qualify for it; it’s not just a commissioned officer, like an inspector or something like that?

Mr. Mike Harris: Essentially, how this works right now with the OPP—and just a couple of quick comments on your general statement. I think it’s really important to level the playing field when we talk about this. One of the things that really came up through consultation was, why is it just the OPP that can have this? It’s almost like a—it is an award, so to speak, but it also bumps your rank a little bit too: being a commissioned officer versus an NCO, or a non-commissioned officer. I think we’re all somewhat familiar with how the military structure works. It’s very similar to that, but levelling the playing field and making sure that people who are doing the same job out there, protecting Ontarians on a day-to-day basis, are able to be rewarded or awarded in the very same way.

Essentially how this works is if you’re a non-commissioned officer with a police force—typically this would be awarded to somebody who is of an upper rank already. So you would see it maybe go to, typically, an inspector or above, or that equivalent with whatever police service you would be in. You would then become a Queen’s commissioned officer for exemplary service. So you’re talking about all of those good things in the community. You’re talking about having a spotless record. Of course, there are some internal considerations that are in play, but these aren’t handed out just like candy. In the last 20 years—or maybe 10 years—within the OPP, I think there have only been maybe 20 or a few more than that that have actually been awarded.

I think one of the concerns was, well, are these just going to get passed out? No. And not every police service has to opt in to this. If they feel there is someone who is deserving of it, then they can petition to have that awarded to them. There still are, obviously, checks and balances that have to go into play, but I think keeping the spirit of this is something that is—what’s the word I’m looking for?—prestigious. It’s something that is prestigious, and keeping that alive and moving forward with that.


Mr. Randy Pettapiece: So this award is more for their years of service and what they’ve done over the years?

Mr. Mike Harris: Yes.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: Okay. It’s not for an act of bravery or something like that.

Mr. Mike Harris: No, no.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: So they go to the police officer’s record and see how they’ve done their job over a certain number of years and—

Mr. Mike Harris: Correct, sir. Yes.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: Okay, that’s fine.

Mr. Mike Harris: Yes. It’s not like an exemplary service medal or like a Purple Heart or something along those lines.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: I mean, I hope it’s not a Purple Heart.

Mr. Mike Harris: I know; we don’t really want to see too many of those. But no, this is something over that time span of someone’s career. Once they’ve achieved that stature within their organization, then that’s when something like this would be looked at.

Ms. Donna Skelly: Accomplishment.

Mr. Mike Harris: Yes, exactly.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: All right.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Two minutes. Yes, Ms. Skelly?

Ms. Donna Skelly: Real quick: How would a force, first of all, learn about this? How will we communicate this? And secondly, what is the application process?

Mr. Mike Harris: I guess the communication on this—it really goes out through the Police Association of Ontario and a lot of the different organizations. Obviously, the chief’s offices are the people that would be the ones that would be directly interacting with nominating an officer.

As far as the actual nuts and bolts, there is a little bit—and I think that’s going to be introduced in an amendment a little bit later on. Some of this will be developed through regulation. We are changing some aspects of the Police Services Act with this, so we want to make sure that we have the foundation in place to be able to have those police services be able to know what’s going on and go through the process. Right now, the way that it’s done with the OPP—it’s going to be probably a little bit different with the municipal services and First Nations services. We have to actually open up two of the acts to change some of the parameters in there. But from what I’ve heard, everybody is already pretty much on board with this and they’ve been looking forward to it for a couple of years and are already pretty familiar with the process.

Ms. Donna Skelly: Okay.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): You have one minute left. Yes, Mr. Smith, please.

Mr. Dave Smith: I just want to quickly say this and say thank you very much for this, Mike, on behalf of the Peterborough Police Service. We’ve got an initiative: Cops for Cancer, Pedal for Hope. It’s the Peterborough OPP and Peterborough city police. They travel 1,000 kilometres by bicycle, volunteering their time for it. They hit 48 schools, and in the last 10 years they’ve raised just over $2 million.

Mr. Mike Harris: Wow.

Mr. Dave Smith: The OPP qualify for this award or this commission, but the Peterborough police would not. Thank you for opening that opportunity for them.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Thank you very much. The time has now expired. MPP Harris, thank you very kindly for your presentation, sir.

Mr. Michael Mantha: Chair?

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Yes, Mr. Mantha?

Mr. Michael Mantha: Just before the member leaves, I just want it to be noted that our caucus said quality over quantity. I just wanted to leave that with you, okay? Anyway, thank you, Chair.

Mr. Mike Harris: You’re the only one that matters, Mike. You’re the only one that matters.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): The Chair is considerate, given the realities of the bill. Thank you very much, Mr. Harris. You may be excused, sir.

Mr. Mike Harris: I will hang around.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Okay. You are totally welcome to do so.

We will now move to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill 78. The Clerk has distributed the amendment package to all members and staff electronically. I’m assuming you have it. If any member indicates that they wish to move any additional amendments, we will at that time take a short recess to allow the member to consult with legislative counsel in order to draft the motion.

Are there any questions before we begin, or are there additional amendments other than what we have proposed? Okay.

Ms. Donna Skelly: Come on over here.

Mr. Mike Harris: There’s room over here.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Order. Okay, seeing none—we have a little love in here, but we must move on. No further amendments, then? So no need to delay at all.

Pursuant to standing order 83, are there any comments, questions or amendments to any section of the bill and if so, to which section?

Amendments proposed? Government. Section 1. Yes, Ms. Hogarth.

Ms. Christine Hogarth: I move that section 1 of the bill be struck out and the following substituted:

“1. The Police Services Act is amended by adding the following section:

“‘Commissioned municipal police officers

“‘45.1 The Lieutenant Governor in Council may authorize the issue of a commission under the great seal to a municipal police officer who has achieved a prescribed rank.’”

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Thank you very kindly. Any further discussion? Yes, Mr. Mantha?

Mr. Michael Mantha: Not having seen that, can you tell me what that is doing?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: Sure. It’s to clarify the aspect that the rank must be obtained to receive the award, in line with the current awarding through the OPP. So it’s just trying to make them even. It’s really a clarification.

Mr. Michael Mantha: Okay.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): All in support of the amendment, please raise your hand. All opposed? Carried.

Now that we’ve had that amendment passed, shall section 1, as amended, carry? In favour? Opposed? Carried.

We will now open the floor to further amendments. Yes, Ms. Hogarth?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: I move that section 2 of the bill be struck out and the following substituted:

“2. Section 54 of the act is amended by adding the following subsections:

“‘Commissioned First Nations constable officers

“‘(9) Subject to subsection (10), the Lieutenant Governor in Council may authorize the issue of a commission under the great seal to a First Nations constable who has achieved a prescribed rank.


“‘(10) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may not authorize the issue of a commission under the great seal to a First Nations constable whose specified duties relate to a reserve without first consulting with the police governing authority or band council that approved the constable’s appointment.’”

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Thank you very kindly. Any further comment?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: I’ll just clarify—

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Would you like that clarified, Mr. Mantha?

Mr. Michael Mantha: Yes, please.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Please, if you would.

Ms. Christine Hogarth: We just want to ensure that we do not impose an award on a First Nation service. This ensures it will be a positive for any officer who receives this. We want to make sure that it’s wanted. That was something that came up earlier in discussions.

Mr. Mike Harris: Am I allowed to pipe up? Can I clarify it a little bit further?

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Clarification?

Mr. Mike Harris: Just on that, MPP Mantha: Basically, through some further consultations we also realized, similar to how a police services board would work, for the First Nations band on any of the particular reserves in question, we would want to make sure that we also consult with them before. You’ve got the police service, and you also have the band council, similar to how you would have a police service and you would have a police services board. So rather than just having the actual police service go ahead and nominate them, we also want to make sure that the band is on board with moving forward with having that honour bestowed upon them.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): So it’s just not arbitrarily imposed, is what you’re saying.

Mr. Mike Harris: Correct, yes.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): I don’t see anything further. All in favour? Opposed? Carried.

So section 2, then, as amended: All in favour? Opposed? Carried.

Mr. Michael Mantha: Chair, will I be provided copies of these amendments before I leave, or could I be provided with a copy of these? Why don’t I have these? Why don’t I have them right now, is my question.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Mr. Mantha, you should have been, yes. We will have a very, very quick pause here while you get a copy of them, sir.

Okay. We will now go to further amendments. Yes, Ms. Hogarth?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: I move that section 3 of the bill be struck out and the following substituted:


“3. The act comes into force on a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor.”

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Any further comment on that, or clarification needed? Yes, Ms. Hogarth?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: I’m happy to share. This is just to ensure that we have time to put the award process in place when the bill comes into effect.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Further comment? Seeing none, all in favour? Opposed? Carried.

With that amendment passed, we will now go to section 3, as amended. All in favour? Opposed? Carried.

We will now go to section 4, the short title. Shall section 4, as amended, carry?

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Thushitha Kobikrishna): Not amended.

The Chair (Mr. Daryl Kramp): Not as amended. Excusez. Shall section 4 carry? All in favour? Opposed? Carried.

Shall the preamble carry? All in favour? Opposed? Carried.

Shall the title of the bill carry? Opposed? Carried.

Shall Bill 78, as amended, carry? Opposed? Carried.

Shall I report Bill 78, as amended, to the House? All in favour? Opposed? Carried.

Colleagues, I would just offer one comment. Now that the bill has passed, I obviously have a personal reflection as a former police officer who has looked down the barrel of a gun, from the wrong direction, might I say, and I have dealt with this issue as well as pension issues and everything derived from this. This bill is so, so well received, and I say that not in my position as Chair but in a position with my personal status being so. We had such a unanimous level of support, concern, consideration and care on this bill.

As Chair, I thank you all very, very much for this bill. Adjourned.

The committee adjourned at 1531.




Chair / Président

Mr. Daryl Kramp (Hastings–Lennox and Addington PC)


Vice-Chair / Vice-Présidente

Mme Lucille Collard (Ottawa–Vanier L)


Mme Lucille Collard (Ottawa–Vanier L)

Ms. Christine Hogarth (Etobicoke–Lakeshore PC)

Mr. Daryl Kramp (Hastings–Lennox and Addington PC)

Ms. Natalia Kusendova (Mississauga Centre / Mississauga-Centre PC)

Mr. Jim McDonell (Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry PC)

Ms. Suze Morrison (Toronto Centre / Toronto-Centre ND)

Mr. Randy Pettapiece (Perth–Wellington PC)

Mr. Gurratan Singh (Brampton East / Brampton-Est ND)

Ms. Donna Skelly (Flamborough–Glanbrook PC)

Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos (Oakville North–Burlington / Oakville-Nord–Burlington PC)

Mr. Kevin Yarde (Brampton North / Brampton-Nord ND)


Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Mr. Stephen Crawford (Oakville PC)

Ms. Goldie Ghamari (Carleton PC)

Mr. Michael Mantha (Algoma–Manitoulin ND)

Mr. Dave Smith (Peterborough–Kawartha PC)


Also taking part / Autres participants et participantes

Mr. Mike Harris (Kitchener–Conestoga PC)


Clerk / Greffière

Ms. Thushitha Kobikrishna


Staff / Personnel

Mr. Eric Chamney, legislative counsel