G047 - Fri 30 Apr 2021 / Ven 30 avr 2021



Friday 30 April 2021 Vendredi 30 avril 2021

Committee business


The committee met at 1300 in room 151 and by video conference.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Good afternoon, everyone. The Standing Committee on General Government will now come to order.

We have the following members present in the room: just myself. The following members are participating remotely: MPP Bob Bailey, MPP Guy Bourgouin, MPP Stephen Crawford, MPP Mike Harris, MPP Amarjot Sandhu, MPP Daisy Wai, MPP Jennifer French and MPP Peter Tabuns.


The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Oh, MPP Schreiner, can you please confirm that you are present and in Ontario?

Mr. Mike Schreiner: Yes, hi. It’s MPP Schreiner. I am present in Guelph, Ontario.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Thank you for joining us. Have any other members joined us? No.

We are also joined by staff from legislative research, Hansard and broadcast and recording.

Please speak slowly and clearly and wait until I recognize you before starting to speak. Since it could take a little time for your audio and video to come up after I recognize you, please take a brief pause before beginning. As always, all comments should go through the Chair. Are there any questions before we begin?

Committee business

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): On the agenda is committee business. Are there any motions? MPP Harris.

Mr. Mike Harris: I move that the committee enter closed session for the purposes of organizing committee business and that broadcasting staff be permitted to remain in the closed session meeting for the purposes of operating the electronic meeting technology.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): MPP Harris has moved a motion. Any discussions or comments? MPP Tabuns.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Chair, I will lose this vote, but I object. I think it’s anti-democratic. I don’t think there’s any reason for it. This happened earlier this week on another organizational discussion. Nothing really confidential is going on. I see no reason to go into closed session.

There is a motion to be introduced about the order of business. Introduce it in open session. Let’s have a debate and have a vote. That’s all I have to say, Chair.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Further debate? MPP French.

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I am also confused as to why this is necessary. Historically speaking, anything organizational has been—it should be above board and able to be discussed publicly, with public eyes on it as needed. I think that moving it behind closed doors sends a message of secrecy and conducting business in the shadows. We’re organizing what should be reasonable timelines and whatnot for the next steps of government bills.

This is a departure from historical process. I see Bob Bailey is on here. He remembers what committee used to be like. Remember when we had subcommittees?

But it’s this idea that this is a majority government—I see this as a misuse of that majority. Anyway, it raises concerns of transparency, and it should not be what the government is doing.

And when appropriate, Chair, I’ll be glad to call for a recorded vote, so if someone will remind me to do that.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): I will make a note of that, MPP French.

MPP Bourgouin.

M. Guy Bourgouin: M’entendez-vous, madame la Présidente?

La Présidente (Mme Goldie Ghamari): Pardonnez-moi?

M. Guy Bourgouin: M’entendez-vous?

La Présidente (Mme Goldie Ghamari): Oui.

M. Guy Bourgouin: Merci. Écoute, comme mes deux collègues viennent de mentionner, on a passé à travers le même processus récemment. Je ne vois pas la nécessité que ça soit à portes closes. Encore ça démontre—quand j’ai mentionné, le dernier coup, qu’on se demande pourquoi le public est sarcastique envers les politiciens, ce sont des raisons comme ça : qu’on essaie de faire ça à portes closes. Ça donne une illusion qu’il y a quelque chose à cacher. Je crois que c’est un manque de responsabilité. Je crois que la transparence compte pour beaucoup. On sait que, dans le passé, il y a beaucoup de précédents où—pas des précédents, mais ça se faisait; avec des sous-comités, ça se faisait avec de la transparence. Ça fait que je veux noter mon opposition fortement contre la motion.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Is there any further debate? Seeing none, are members prepared to vote? MPP French has requested a recorded vote. MPP Harris has moved a motion. Shall the motion carry?


Bailey, Crawford, Harris, Sandhu, Wai.


Bourgouin, French, Schreiner, Tabuns.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): There are four opposition and five government; I declare the motion carried.

We’ll now move into an in camera session. We’ll just give recording and broadcasting and the Clerk a little bit of time to prepare and then we will resume.

The committee continued in closed session at 1308.


Chair / Présidente

Ms. Goldie Ghamari (Carleton PC)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Président

Mr. Mike Schreiner (Guelph G)

Ms. Jill Andrew (Toronto–St. Paul’s ND)

Mr. Robert Bailey (Sarnia–Lambton PC)

Mr. Guy Bourgouin (Mushkegowuk–James Bay / Mushkegowuk–Baie James ND)

Mr. Stephen Crawford (Oakville PC)

Ms. Goldie Ghamari (Carleton PC)

Mr. Chris Glover (Spadina–Fort York ND)

Mr. Mike Harris (Kitchener–Conestoga PC)

Mr. Sheref Sabawy (Mississauga–Erin Mills PC)

Mr. Amarjot Sandhu (Brampton West / Brampton-Ouest PC)

Mr. Mike Schreiner (Guelph G)

Mrs. Daisy Wai (Richmond Hill PC)

Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Ms. Jennifer K. French (Oshawa ND)

Mr. Peter Tabuns (Toronto–Danforth ND)

Clerk pro tem / Greffière par intérim

Ms. Julia Douglas

Staff / Personnel

Ms. Sude Beltan, research officer,
Research Services