G017 - Mon 18 Nov 2019 / Lun 18 nov 2019



Monday 18 November 2019 Lundi 18 novembre 2019

Subcommittee report


The committee met at 1400 in committee room 1.

Subcommittee report

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Good afternoon, honourable members. We’re here today to consider the report of the subcommittee on committee business, dated November 13, 2019.

Could we please have a member read the report in full into the record? MPP Stevens.

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: Your subcommittee on committee business met on Wednesday, November 13, 2019, to consider the method of proceeding on Bill 132, An Act to reduce burdens on people and businesses by enacting, amending and repealing various Acts and revoking various Regulations, and recommends the following:

(1) That in the event of less than three hours of interested presenters in any given location, the Chair be authorized to cancel the hearing and reschedule presenters to appear on an alternate date.

(2) That the committee authorize up to two staff persons from each recognized party, and one staff person for the Green Party independent member, to travel with the committee, space permitting, for the purpose of public hearings on Bill 132 and that reasonable expenses incurred for travel, accommodation and meals be paid for by the committee upon receipt of a properly filed expense claim.

(3) That the research officer provide the committee a summary of testimonies by 6 p.m. on Friday, November 29, 2019.

I move adoption of the report of the subcommittee on committee business as dated Wednesday, November 13, 2019.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Thank you, MPP Stevens. Is there any discussion? If not, can I please have a motion for the adoption of the report—which, sorry, she already did. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.

Thank you very much, everyone. That concludes our business for today.

Ms. Catherine Fife: One question.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Yes.

Ms. Catherine Fife: Thanks. I’m just looking at the schedule for London and then for Peterborough, and I hoping that in Peterborough—we’re still waiting for confirmation for the 9 a.m. I wonder if the committee would consider going until 12:30 that day so we could actually leave Peterborough at a better time. It can be decided, I guess, the day of.

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Jocelyn McCauley): We can contact the last presenters and then see if they’re willing to go earlier.

Ms. Catherine Fife: That’s the Christian Farmers Federation, right?

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Jocelyn McCauley): Yes. We’ll give them a call and we’ll see if they’re willing to present earlier in the day, and take a shorter lunch in order to do that, if the Chair—

Ms. Catherine Fife: That’s great.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): I would like that, given that I have—


The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): All right. MPP Khanjin?

Ms. Andrea Khanjin: I just had a question about the departure time for London. Just to save taxpayer dollars without having to do the hotel cost on that night, can we not go in the morning?

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): London is a very long trip, and my understanding is the Legislative Assembly—they have to get ready and they have to get prepped. So they need to be there.

Ms. Andrea Khanjin: Okay. That’s noted.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): But with reference to saving taxpayer dollars—

Ms. Andrea Khanjin: Yes.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): —initially we were supposed to travel to Sault Ste. Marie and also Kenora, and we decided not to. We’re going to be teleconferencing two presenters from Sault Ste. Marie. We’re not going to be travelling, so that’s going to save us a lot of money.

Ms. Andrea Khanjin: All right. Excellent. Thank you.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): MPP Skelly?

Ms. Donna Skelly: Hi. Thank you, Chair. Can you confirm the departure time? Is it 1 p.m. on Wednesday?

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Yes. On Wednesday we will be leaving at 1 p.m. It’s in everyone’s packages that you will have received.

Ms. Donna Skelly: Why?

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Because we want to avoid traffic. Because if we leave any time later then we’re going to be stuck in traffic and we’re not going to get there at any reasonable amount. At the prior meeting, and at the meeting of the subcommittee, it was determined that we were going to leave at 1 p.m., right after question period, in order to avoid traffic.

MPP Pettapiece?

Ms. Donna Skelly: Sorry, to me, leaving at 1 o’clock is mind-boggling. I can’t believe we’re leaving at 1 o’clock to be there for a 9 o’clock meeting on Thursday—

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Well, if the committee wants to discuss that, it’s up for discussion, if people would like.

Ms. Donna Skelly: I would like to discuss it.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Well, MPP Pettapiece, is that in relation to the 1 p.m.—

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: Well, it has a relationship to it. I’m not very far from London—where I live. Am I required to go on the bus?

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): No.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: So I can go home? You see, I would just go home and go to London in the morning.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Absolutely.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: And then can I drive to Peterborough myself?

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Of course.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: All right. Thank you.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): MPP Stevens.

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: I think that 1 o’clock is fine. With the notice of the weather that might be coming, I feel that we’d better be very careful with the road conditions so that we arrive safe and alive. I’m sure the taxpayers would be appreciative of that.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: I don’t have an issue with it.

Ms. Donna Skelly: Can we take a vote? Because I just find it unbelievable that we’re leaving at 1 o’clock from Toronto on a Wednesday to meet in London at 9 o’clock the next day. It’s ridiculous.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): The hotel rooms have already been booked. So even if we were going to leave Thursday morning, we would still incur costs because it’s too late to cancel—same thing with the charter bus. The reason that we’re leaving at 1 is because of traffic conditions and also weather conditions.

Is there a particular reason that 1 p.m. does not work?

Ms. Donna Skelly: The House sits until 6 o’clock. I don’t understand why we don’t leave at 6. If we get in before 10, we can still go to bed and get up in the morning—

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Right. But we also have to consider the legislative staff and the committee staff who are travelling. They have to get ready and they have to prep. Because we’re taking one charter bus, we’re all leaving together. If you would like to depart separately, the committee could cover the costs of that.

Ms. Donna Skelly: I’m just suggesting—we do this for the finance committee. We all travelled together. We all got in late at night. We still did it. We didn’t get in until 8 o’clock or 9 o’clock at night to some of the places. You go in, you set up and you go the next morning. But I just find that to leave for London a day and a half before you go is unacceptable. Our House sits until 6 o’clock. Why are we not staying until 6 o’clock?

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): MPP Fife.

Ms. Catherine Fife: I support the motion that we just voted on, which was the subcommittee report, which approved the times and the leaving.

I do think that we have to be cognizant of the fact that we’re travelling with all of the translation materials and research staff as well. The subcommittee, including the members of your own party, agreed to leaving at 1 o’clock, so I think it’s just prudent.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): MPP Skelly.

Ms. Donna Skelly: I think that it’s outrageous that we’re leaving before 6 o’clock. When we’re in the finance committee, we’re on a plane, we go, we all travel together in one unit. We fly in, we fly out, we get in late—

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): But we’re not flying; we’re taking a bus.

Ms. Donna Skelly: Regardless. Flying is just as dangerous, when you’re flying out. Weather conditions permitting, we stayed until the end, 6 o’clock. You go to the next place. You get in at about 8 or 9 o’clock at night. You eat, you go to bed, and you get up in the morning.

I’m just gobsmacked that this committee thinks that to get to London for Thursday morning at 9—we’re leaving at 1 o’clock on Wednesday. I think that most people would be mortified if they saw their government operating in this fashion. I’m just putting it on the record. That’s how I feel about it.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Thank you, MPP Skelly. I think, at this point, we’re going to vote on the motion, and if—


The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Oh, sorry, it has all been voted on—my apologies.

What I’m going to do is I’m going to take your comments into consideration, and if I determine that it is more prudent to change the travel time, then I will let everyone know. Ultimately, it is up to the committee Chair to determine the travel times.

Having said that, our business for the day—yes, MPP Stevens?

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: Sorry, Chair, but did we not just duly vote on a motion to say the time we are leaving, that the subcommittee had already voted on? I know it’s at the discretion of the Chair. However—

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): MPP Stevens, the motion does not say the time of departure, so that’s ultimately up to the Chair. I will take everyone’s comments into consideration, and if the departure time is being changed, I will send out an email and I will notify everyone.

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: Okay, so, just a comment, then—and I want it on the record—that I feel that it is very crucial that we leave at a decent hour of the day for travel time, due to weather. We don’t know what the weather is going to be that day. I just feel that getting there and being able to prepare is also important, to make a clear, sound decision.

The Chair (Ms. Goldie Ghamari): Thank you, MPP Stevens.

If there’s no further discussion, then the committee meeting is concluded for the day. Thank you, everyone, for your time and your co-operation. The meeting is adjourned.

The committee adjourned at 1410.


Chair / Présidente

Ms. Goldie Ghamari (Carleton PC)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Président

Mr. Daryl Kramp (Hastings–Lennox and Addington PC)

Mr. Robert Bailey (Sarnia–Lambton PC)

Ms. Jessica Bell (University–Rosedale ND)

Ms. Goldie Ghamari (Carleton PC)

Mr. Chris Glover (Spadina–Fort York ND)

Mr. Mike Harris (Kitchener–Conestoga PC)

Mr. Daryl Kramp (Hastings–Lennox and Addington PC)

Mr. Sheref Sabawy (Mississauga–Erin Mills PC)

Mr. Amarjot Sandhu (Brampton West / Brampton-Ouest PC)

Mr. Mike Schreiner (Guelph G)

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens (St. Catharines ND)

Mrs. Daisy Wai (Richmond Hill PC)

Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand–Norfolk PC)

Ms. Catherine Fife (Waterloo ND)

Ms. Andrea Khanjin (Barrie–Innisfil PC)

Mr. Randy Pettapiece (Perth–Wellington PC)

Ms. Donna Skelly (Flamborough–Glanbrook PC)

Mr. Dave Smith (Peterborough–Kawartha PC)

Clerk / Greffière

Ms. Jocelyn McCauley

Staff / Personnel

Mr. Ian Morris, research officer,
Research Services